Did we get it right??

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

That looks exactly right to me, per 2-10. Since the play involved awarding a merited free throw and no change of possession had taken place, you were correct to put the players back on the lane and play it that way. Had a change of possession taken place, then you would have shot w/o players on the lane and gone w/ POI to resume.

The play does NOT involove "failure to award a merited FT" (2-10-1a). It involves "permitting a wrong player to attempt the FT" (2-10-1c).

So, the OP was correct to remove the points from A2 shooting, but then should have had A1 shoot the FT(s), and resume from the POI.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The play does NOT involove "failure to award a merited FT" (2-10-1a). It involves "permitting a wrong player to attempt the FT" (2-10-1c).

So, the OP was correct to remove the points from A2 shooting, but then should have had A1 shoot the FT(s), and resume from the POI.

So you would shoot the FT and give the ball back to A? I have always questioned this interp b/c you are right it only says that you continue play from the FT when you have "failure to award a merited FT", otherwise it is POI...I just took "failure to award a merited FT" to mean that A1 did not get his merited FT, but I understand what you are saying that "failure to award a merited FT" is different from wrong player shoots/wrong basket...I have never had nor seen this happen, but it is good to know if this is the case...

[Damian]

As you described it, it sounds exactly right. But, you said it was during a scramble. If Team B had team control before the scramble and then fouled, there would be no shooting.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The play does NOT involove "failure to award a merited FT" (2-10-1a). It involves "permitting a wrong player to attempt the FT" (2-10-1c).

So, the OP was correct to remove the points from A2 shooting, but then should have had A1 shoot the FT(s), and resume from the POI.

I don't know, Bob - I thought about exactly what you said - but in addition to the fact that they awarded two unmerited free throws to A2, didn't they also fail to award a merited free throw to A1?

[swkansasref33]

So, what is the POI? would you just give B the ball at the point where the foul occured, seeing as A1 missed the second FT? or would you have put the players on the lane, or would B take it out under A's basket?

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by swkansasref33

So, what is the POI? would you just give B the ball at the point where the foul occured, seeing as A1 missed the second FT? or would you have put the players on the lane, or would B take it out under A's basket?

A had the rebound in the OP when it was determined that you had a correctable error, so the POI would be A's ball wherever they had it when the ball was whistled dead..

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The play does NOT involove "failure to award a merited FT" (2-10-1a). It involves "permitting a wrong player to attempt the FT" (2-10-1c).

So, the OP was correct to remove the points from A2 shooting, but then should have had A1 shoot the FT(s), and resume from the POI.

This is correct. The fact that a 1-1 was attempted means that the merited FT attempts were given. The TEAM was due FTs. The fact that the wrong player attempted them doesn't make the FTs unmerited, it just means that the wrong player stepped up for that team. The FTs were still merited. They just weren't administered properly.

Originally Posted by kbilla

A had the rebound in the OP when it was determined that you had a correctable error, so the POI would be A's ball wherever they had it when the ball was whistled dead..

This is also right. I was a bit confused as to which coach went to the table to request the TO. I'm hoping that it was Coach A.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

This is correct. The fact that a 1-1 was attempted means that the merited FT attempts were given. The TEAM was due FTs. The fact that the wrong player attempted them doesn't make the FTs unmerited, it just means that the wrong player stepped up for that team. The FTs were still merited. They just weren't administered properly.



This is also right. I was a bit confused as to which coach went to the table to request the TO. I'm hoping that it was Coach A.

So we screw up this FT administration, and we're going to give A1 "his/her's" meritted free throw and then give A the ball back? That's not how I am reading 2.10.5 & 2.10.6.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

So we screw up this FT administration, and we're going to give A1 "his/her's" meritted free throw and then give A the ball back? That's not how I am reading 2.10.5 & 2.10.6.

Yes. Team B had two chances to prevent this.
1. They could have spoken up about it being the wrong shooter before the FTs were taken. They didn't.
2. They could have secured the rebound when the second FT was missed. They didn't. They were out played by Team A in that moment.

So the officials cannot now take the ball away from Team A which has rightfully earned it by hustle. The POI is the possession by Team A.

The 2-10 rules are written such that both teams have an incentive to bring a problem to the attention of the officials and get it done right. We don't want either team keeping quiet in the belief that they will benefit from the error.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Yes. Team B had two chances to prevent this.
1. They could have spoken up about it being the wrong shooter before the FTs were taken. They didn't.
2. They could have secured the rebound when the second FT was missed. They didn't. They were out played by Team A in that moment.

So the officials cannot now take the ball away from Team A which has rightfully earned it by hustle. The POI is the possession by Team A.

The 2-10 rules are written such that both teams have an incentive to bring a problem to the attention of the officials and get it done right. We don't want either team keeping quiet in the belief that they will benefit from the error.

I understand the the free throws wasn't unmerited and for the wrong player shooting the FTs, but.. we are giving the correct shooter his merited free throw and per 10.2.6 - If an error is corrected, play shall be resumed from the point of interruption to rectify the error, unless it involves awarding a merited free throw(s) and there has been no change of team possesion since the error was made, in which case play shall resume as after any free-throw attempt(s).

Again, yes the error was for the incorrect shooter, but we are resuming play by giving A1 his merited free throws, so 10.2.6 would apply.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

I understand the the free throws wasn't unmerited and for the wrong player shooting the FTs, but.. we are giving the correct shooter his merited free throw and per 10.2.6 - If an error is corrected, play shall be resumed from the point of interruption to rectify the error, unless it involves awarding a merited free throw(s) and there has been no change of team possesion since the error was made, in which case play shall resume as after any free-throw attempt(s).

Again, yes the error was for the incorrect shooter, but we are resuming play by giving A1 his merited free throws, so 10.2.6 would apply.

All that I can tell you is that your reasoning is not correct.

Perhaps if I alter the play for you, it might make it clearer.

Instead of the coach requesting a time-out to stop the play, B3 fouls A4. Now are you still going to give the correct shooter his attempts and think that you resume from there? You have to resume at the POI, which is the FTs now due to A4.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

All that I can tell you is that your reasoning is not correct.

Perhaps if I alter the play for you, it might make it clearer.

Instead of the coach requesting a time-out to stop the play, B3 fouls A4. Now are you still going to give the correct shooter his attempts and think that you resume from there? You have to resume at the POI, which is the FTs now due to A4.

You and I both know how we are going to resume play for the corrective error, nobody on the lane for the correction, and resume with 1 and 1 for A4 with the lane spaces filled. But that's not what the OP situation. Let me ask you, can you give me a situation where 10.2.6 would apply?

[TussAgee11]

I'm just lurking from the baseball months during this cold winter, and have dilly daddled in basketball - but if you have to recognize it before your next deadball, and you granted a t/o and then realized it from the coach telling you, then you didn't recognize it before the next dead ball after the clock legally started.

All I need is one person to set me straight, I believe you experts. Just want clarification on that.

[Nevadaref]

Tuss, the rule is before the second live ball after the clock has started. So anytime during that next dead ball is still okay.

Joe, chill out. Your citation was confusing.
If you meant 2-10-6, then this play would be a case of its application:
A1 is fouled by B1 and it is the 7th team foul of the half. However, the table neglects to inform the officials and the ball is awarded for a throw-in to Team A. A3 inbounds the ball to A5 and while he is dribbling the table recognizes the error and sounds the horn. An official whistles to stop play and gets the proper information. Play would resume with the merited 1-1 by A1 and continue as normal from there. This was a failure to award merited FTs.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

So we screw up this FT administration, and we're going to give A1 "his/her's" meritted free throw and then give A the ball back? That's not how I am reading 2.10.5 & 2.10.6.

I've said this before, but here's another example: The correctable error rules aren't designed to be "fair." They are designed so all parties -- officials and *both* teams -- have an incentive to fix the problem before it becomes a correctable error. What can start out looking like an advantage (hey -- look -- that poor FT shooter A1 is at the line instead of cant-miss A2) can turn into a disadvantage (A2 gets to shoot AND they get the ball back!?).