Did we get it right??

[MidMadness]

B2 fouls A1 in a scramble...shooting 1 and 1.... A2 goes to line by accident as they were both right there...A2 makes first , misses second. Team A gets rebound, coach goes to table, calls t/o. Claims wrong shooter was at line ...(he was right) wants to know if we can fix. I say yes...We take the point off the board, do not charge him with a time out?? and put A1 at the line to shoot a 1 and 1?? with players on the lane, makes first, misses second..Play on??? Did we get it right?? Thanks

[jdw3018]

That looks exactly right to me, per 2-10. Since the play involved awarding a merited free throw and no change of possession had taken place, you were correct to put the players back on the lane and play it that way. Had a change of possession taken place, then you would have shot w/o players on the lane and gone w/ POI to resume.

[Rev.Ref63]

According to 2-10-4 in the Case Book, you got it right.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by MidMadness

B2 fouls A1 in a scramble...shooting 1 and 1.... A2 goes to line by accident as they were both right there...A2 makes first , misses second. Team A gets rebound, coach goes to table, calls t/o. Claims wrong shooter was at line ...(he was right) wants to know if we can fix. I say yes...We take the point off the board, do not charge him with a time out?? and put A1 at the line to shoot a 1 and 1?? with players on the lane, makes first, misses second..Play on??? Did we get it right?? Thanks

Let's see you recognized it in time (prior to during first dead ball after clock has properly started), so you can correct it....you are correct to cancel the made FT per 2-10....you are correct no charged TO since you rectified the error...since there was no change in posession, you would put A1 on the line, shoot the 1&1 and continue play from there....

What I am curious about is how did you know for sure that you had the wrong shooter to begin with if they were both "right there"? Were you sure that A1 was the shooter after all that time had passed? If all of the proper steps were taken, for instance you or your partner communicated correctly, got the shooter, had the number, etc, then you would know, but then you probably wouldn't have let A2 attempt the FT in the first place...just curious b/c the coach could just be trying to get another shot at the free throws since his player missed the second FT....but if you are sure you had the wrong shooter then you did it correctly...

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

That looks exactly right to me, per 2-10. Since the play involved awarding a merited free throw and no change of possession had taken place, you were correct to put the players back on the lane and play it that way. Had a change of possession taken place, then you would have shot w/o players on the lane and gone w/ POI to resume.

The play does NOT involove "failure to award a merited FT" (2-10-1a). It involves "permitting a wrong player to attempt the FT" (2-10-1c).

So, the OP was correct to remove the points from A2 shooting, but then should have had A1 shoot the FT(s), and resume from the POI.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The play does NOT involove "failure to award a merited FT" (2-10-1a). It involves "permitting a wrong player to attempt the FT" (2-10-1c).

So, the OP was correct to remove the points from A2 shooting, but then should have had A1 shoot the FT(s), and resume from the POI.

So you would shoot the FT and give the ball back to A? I have always questioned this interp b/c you are right it only says that you continue play from the FT when you have "failure to award a merited FT", otherwise it is POI...I just took "failure to award a merited FT" to mean that A1 did not get his merited FT, but I understand what you are saying that "failure to award a merited FT" is different from wrong player shoots/wrong basket...I have never had nor seen this happen, but it is good to know if this is the case...

[Damian]

As you described it, it sounds exactly right. But, you said it was during a scramble. If Team B had team control before the scramble and then fouled, there would be no shooting.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The play does NOT involove "failure to award a merited FT" (2-10-1a). It involves "permitting a wrong player to attempt the FT" (2-10-1c).

So, the OP was correct to remove the points from A2 shooting, but then should have had A1 shoot the FT(s), and resume from the POI.

I don't know, Bob - I thought about exactly what you said - but in addition to the fact that they awarded two unmerited free throws to A2, didn't they also fail to award a merited free throw to A1?

[swkansasref33]

So, what is the POI? would you just give B the ball at the point where the foul occured, seeing as A1 missed the second FT? or would you have put the players on the lane, or would B take it out under A's basket?

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by swkansasref33

So, what is the POI? would you just give B the ball at the point where the foul occured, seeing as A1 missed the second FT? or would you have put the players on the lane, or would B take it out under A's basket?

A had the rebound in the OP when it was determined that you had a correctable error, so the POI would be A's ball wherever they had it when the ball was whistled dead..

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The play does NOT involove "failure to award a merited FT" (2-10-1a). It involves "permitting a wrong player to attempt the FT" (2-10-1c).

So, the OP was correct to remove the points from A2 shooting, but then should have had A1 shoot the FT(s), and resume from the POI.

This is correct. The fact that a 1-1 was attempted means that the merited FT attempts were given. The TEAM was due FTs. The fact that the wrong player attempted them doesn't make the FTs unmerited, it just means that the wrong player stepped up for that team. The FTs were still merited. They just weren't administered properly.

Originally Posted by kbilla

A had the rebound in the OP when it was determined that you had a correctable error, so the POI would be A's ball wherever they had it when the ball was whistled dead..

This is also right. I was a bit confused as to which coach went to the table to request the TO. I'm hoping that it was Coach A.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

This is correct. The fact that a 1-1 was attempted means that the merited FT attempts were given. The TEAM was due FTs. The fact that the wrong player attempted them doesn't make the FTs unmerited, it just means that the wrong player stepped up for that team. The FTs were still merited. They just weren't administered properly.



This is also right. I was a bit confused as to which coach went to the table to request the TO. I'm hoping that it was Coach A.

So we screw up this FT administration, and we're going to give A1 "his/her's" meritted free throw and then give A the ball back? That's not how I am reading 2.10.5 & 2.10.6.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

So we screw up this FT administration, and we're going to give A1 "his/her's" meritted free throw and then give A the ball back? That's not how I am reading 2.10.5 & 2.10.6.

Yes. Team B had two chances to prevent this.
1. They could have spoken up about it being the wrong shooter before the FTs were taken. They didn't.
2. They could have secured the rebound when the second FT was missed. They didn't. They were out played by Team A in that moment.

So the officials cannot now take the ball away from Team A which has rightfully earned it by hustle. The POI is the possession by Team A.

The 2-10 rules are written such that both teams have an incentive to bring a problem to the attention of the officials and get it done right. We don't want either team keeping quiet in the belief that they will benefit from the error.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The fact that the wrong player attempted them doesn't make the FTs unmerited, it just means that the wrong player stepped up for that team.

I'm glad I went to the book to look at 2-10 again. Re-reading it makes it absolutely clear that this doesn't fall under either of the "merited free throw" provisions, but under the wrong player attempting a free throw provision. Therefore you must resume from POI.

Thanks for the clarification, Nevada.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Yes. Team B had two chances to prevent this.
1. They could have spoken up about it being the wrong shooter before the FTs were taken. They didn't.
2. They could have secured the rebound when the second FT was missed. They didn't. They were out played by Team A in that moment.

So the officials cannot now take the ball away from Team A which has rightfully earned it by hustle. The POI is the possession by Team A.

The 2-10 rules are written such that both teams have an incentive to bring a problem to the attention of the officials and get it done right. We don't want either team keeping quiet in the belief that they will benefit from the error.

I understand the the free throws wasn't unmerited and for the wrong player shooting the FTs, but.. we are giving the correct shooter his merited free throw and per 10.2.6 - If an error is corrected, play shall be resumed from the point of interruption to rectify the error, unless it involves awarding a merited free throw(s) and there has been no change of team possesion since the error was made, in which case play shall resume as after any free-throw attempt(s).

Again, yes the error was for the incorrect shooter, but we are resuming play by giving A1 his merited free throws, so 10.2.6 would apply.