Official Arrested

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

How deep do we go on this?

You make the call.

[RookieDude]

Great comments...

I was also hoping to get some comments from Association Board members and Assigners (JR?) who actually would have more decision making powers concerning issues as this one.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

Great comments...

I was also hoping to get some comments from Association Board members and Assigners (JR?) who actually would have more decision making powers concerning issues as this one.

Keep in mind that many are not sitting in the position to make such a decision. No official can make that decision from my state. I know as a board member of a particular division in a sport, all we can do is decide membership in our organization. We cannot decide whether and official has a license or can work HS or any other type of game.

Peace

[Adam]

Maybe, Rut, but assigners and board members can and do make decisions about what types of games, if any, officials get. So it does matter what they think of a particular official's integrity and character.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Maybe, Rut, but assigners and board members can and do make decisions about what types of games, if any, officials get. So it does matter what they think of a particular official's integrity and character.

I am speaking from my perspective. Where you live I am sure is totally different with different set of issues as to how this is dealt with. Board members in local associations have nothing to do directly with whether someone does or does not work. Even if an assignor does not want to hire you, that does not exclude another assignor from hiring you somewhere else. That takes place already despite someone that has a legal issue or even ethical issue to deal with.

Peace

[Rich]

Just another association that will eventually have to defend accusations that its officials are employees, not independent contractors.

If he was good enough to work varsity games before, how could an association keep him from working those games now without, essentially, restraining his trade?

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Board members in local associations have nothing to do directly with whether someone does or does not work.

Trust me JRut...in this case, the board members do have a say.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

Trust me JRut...in this case, the board members do have a say.

In your area they have all the say. I am talking about my area and you did ask this question to people outside of your area. I am not speaking for what happens just in your area. I have no idea what happens in your area or in every local association. But a Board member of a local officiating association has no say as to whether someone works or not. Only the IHSA and the IHSA Official's Department have that say as to who can or cannot work games in our state. I guess assignors have a personal say if they work for them, but that is a personal decision.

I am sure that is the case where you live because a lot of associations are the key holders to who works, where they work and how they work. In my state that would open the IHSA up for violating independent contractor law and having responsibilities the IHSA is not equip to handle. That might not be the case where you live and that is why I mentioned what is OK where I live. And to give a good example of this, our Observer's Program the IHSA wants implemented. The IHSA made sure that the Observer's Program was not about post season assignments and just training. If they did make our Observer's Program about who gets or does not get post season assignments that could compromise all officials and their independent contractor classification. Then the IHSA might have to pay Worker's Compensation and have to adhere to other legal ramifications and there would be no IHSA as we know it. I would assume that the rules we are under as it relates to this is the very same thing. The only thing the IHSA can do is license you, after that it is up to the individual schools and conferences to hire you and even then they cannot violate certain laws.

Peace

[Coltdoggs]

How do you know a recent partner that you worked with was not from another state where he had problems previously?

If the State association clears a guy on a background check then why the hell would I care whom I am working with (unless his officiating ability is less than desireable)...

I work with some of the same guys from time to time and I guess I'd say they are friends (at the facility)...we don't hang outside the gym together, save a couple...I have no idea what these guys are like in their personal lives....BUT..they are good guys to work with...

[Rich]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

Great comments...

I was also hoping to get some comments from Association Board members and Assigners (JR?) who actually would have more decision making powers concerning issues as this one.

What's the saying?

I wouldn't be concerned with him unless he was found with dead woman or a live boy.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

Great comments...

I was also hoping to get some comments from Association Board members and Assigners (JR?) who actually would have more decision making powers concerning issues as this one.

I am on the board of our 350 person organization. We have clauses in our Constitution/Bylaws regarding criminal conduct. Basically, a Felony change is an immediate suspension pending resolution...guilty or no-contest plea means permanent expulsion. A misdemeanor may carry the same consequences at the discretion of the board.

1. A member shall be automatically expelled upon conviction of or plea of no contest to a felony. While awaiting trial or other disposition of the matter, a member shall not be eligible for assignment of games.
2. A member may be subject to disciplinary action, including expulsion at the discretion of the Executive Board, upon conviction of or plea of no contest to a misdemeanor or other crime, or upon being charged with any crime, pending resolution of such charge.

Section 4. Appeal Process. There is no appeal from expulsion for a conviction of a felony; however, disciplinary action taken against a member pursuant to subsection 2 of Section 4 may be appealed by the member.

Also, we have the ability under the constitution to discipline someone (up to expulsion) for "conduct detrimental to the best interest of the association".

If the legal issues ended with no charges being filed, the charges dismissed, or not guilty, I'd have to give it some deep thought before I'd oppose his return....based on "best interests of the association". It would still be possible that I'd oppose the return of such a person even if found not guilty or charges dismissed but I've have to be absolutely convinced that they really did commit the crime....remembering that we don't have to have "proof beyond a resonable doubt" nor many of the other restrictions necessary in the arena of criminal law.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I am on the board of our 350 person organization. We have clauses in our Constitution/Bylaws regarding criminal conduct. Basically, a Felony change is an immediate suspension pending resolution...guilty or no-contest plea means permanent expulsion. A misdemeanor may carry the same consequences at the discretion of the board.

1. A member shall be automatically expelled upon conviction of or plea of no contest to a felony. While awaiting trial or other disposition of the matter, a member shall not be eligible for assignment of games.
2. A member may be subject to disciplinary action, including expulsion at the discretion of the Executive Board, upon conviction of or plea of no contest to a misdemeanor or other crime, or upon being charged with any crime, pending resolution of such charge.

Section 4. Appeal Process. There is no appeal from expulsion for a conviction of a felony; however, disciplinary action taken against a member pursuant to subsection 2 of Section 4 may be appealed by the member.

Also, we have the ability under the constitution to discipline someone (up to expulsion) for "conduct detrimental to the best interest of the association".

If the legal issues ended with no charges being filed, the charges dismissed, or not guilty, I'd have to give it some deep thought before I'd oppose his return....based on "best interests of the association". It would still be possible that I'd oppose the return of such a person even if found not guilty or charges dismissed but I've have to be absolutely convinced that they really did commit the crime....remembering that we don't have to have "proof beyond a resonable doubt" nor many of the other restrictions necessary in the arena of criminal law.

Oregon, right?

Maybe the state SHOULD consider your officials employees and the association employers if you're going to restrain the trade of officials.

[MadCityRef]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Oregon, right?

Maybe the state SHOULD consider your officials employees and the association employers if you're going to restrain the trade of officials.

The association can invite or "unvite" whom it pleases, but if that means a person can't get games from the attached assignor, you're right.

The OSAA requires membership in an association to insure training and knowledge, etc., in order to work games. The assignors are generally tied to the association.

Here's a link to the OAOA, a statewide assn. that has taken over a lot of what the OSAA used to do concerning its officials. This is on top of the locals. http://www.oreofficials.org/

How many states require a background check to get a license?
IL, FL yes.
WI no.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by MadCityRef

The association can invite or "unvite" whom it pleases, but if that means a person can't get games from the attached assignor, you're right.

The OSAA requires membership in an association to insure training and knowledge, etc., in order to work games. The assignors are generally tied to the association.

Here's a link to the OAOA, a statewide assn. that has taken over a lot of what the OSAA used to do concerning its officials. This is on top of the locals. http://www.oreofficials.org/

How many states require a background check to get a license?
IL, FL yes.
WI no.

Trust me, the WIAA will remove the license of someone who runs into certain trouble with the law.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Trust me, the WIAA will remove the license of someone who runs into certain trouble with the law.

They will also try to keep girls from playing basketball as well that have become pregnant during the school year. But that is another conversation for another day.

Peace