Free throw admin screw up........

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

What activity am I going to cancel? I would do it by CE rule, yes. Otherwise, you can't fix it.
If you call this an IW, then you have to give the ball to the player who has it.

It's an error, and it's correctable, but it's not a correctable error.

Similar to giving the ball to the wrong team for a throw-in and catching it before the throw-in pass is touched.

If you need to call it something, call it "Fixable Upon Correct Knowledge of the Error for Disregarding the Usual Procedure."

(Apologies to those who don't cuss)

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Let's change this play slightly. Everything is the same except the officials don't blow the whistle until either: 1. A2's putback attempt is in the air, or 2. B1 grabs the rebound and heads down the other way towards an uncontested layup.

The administering official awarded the free throw when he announced "two shots." Whether or not the free throw had been attempted yet doesn't change that.

Finally, what if no one rebounded, and the trail official didn't notice anything wrong until the lead gave the ball back to the shooter for his second attempt. Trail kills the play prior to the shot. This fits the correctable error, and needs to be corrected accordingly. It sure isn't an inadvertant whistle.

Sorry Snaq...this is NOT a correctable error. It doesn't become a correctable error until the FT shooter actually completes the FT (made or missed). Sure, there has been an error...but not a "correctable error".

It's not an inadvertant whistle either. It's a dead ball the moment it comes off the rim and players don't try to rebound it due to the misinformation.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm assuming you're issue is that with CE the window for correction is longer. Right? IOW, if B1 grabs the ball that no one else really attempted to rebound and flings it down to B3 streaking for the basket, and you blow your whistle just after B3 throws down an earth-shattering dunk, it's too late?

...

Calling it CE or not really has no effect on this play.

B3 just dunked a dead ball...the ball is dead on the FT miss if players do not attempt to rebound the ball based on misinformation....even if the ref is slow in blowing the whistle.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

B3 just dunked a dead ball...the ball is dead on the FT miss if players do not attempt to rebound the ball based on misinformation....even if the ref is slow in blowing the whistle.

I don't see how the ball is dead. There's no violation or foul to cause the ball to become dead. The whistle is what makes the ball dead.

I do find it interesting that 2-3 (the God rule) is invoked by the case play, rather than 2-10.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I do find it interesting that 2-3 (the God rule) is invoked by the case play, rather than 2-10.

And what does that tell you?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

And what does that tell you?

The rational me, or the obnoxious me?
Seriously, it tells me the rules committee doesn't consider this 2nd free throw to be awarded yet.

That said, my initial thought, that it is not an IW, stands.

By calling it an IW, the OP's partner put the blame on the OP (possibly inadvertently, ironically enough) rather than on himself.

To me, this is treated and fixed like a CE; and I see no ramifications for thinking of it as such; even if it really isn't.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It's an error, and it's correctable, but it's not a correctable error.

Similar to giving the ball to the wrong team for a throw-in and catching it before the throw-in pass is touched.

If you need to call it something, call it "Fixable Upon Correct Knowledge of the Error for Disregarding the Usual Procedure."

(Apologies to those who don't cuss)

Bob I'm not sure about correcting the above situation highlighted in your post. The throw-in has started once the ball is at the disposal, does the throw-in have to end before we lose the chance to correct this? I can't find this in the case or rule book. I do see in case play 7.5.2 Sit A where the throw in is by the wrong team, but it's not very clear if the throw-in must be completed before we cannot correct this. In the caseplay, the throw in was completed and no correction is allowed. I guess my question is, does the throw-in have to end. In your scenario the throw in started and the ball could be passed onto the playing court, but not yet been touched. I'm not sure if I'm going to correct that, even though it is the right thing to do. Any thoughts or additional references are appreciated.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

Bob I'm not sure about correcting the above situation highlighted in your post. The throw-in has started once the ball is at the disposal, does the throw-in have to end before we lose the chance to correct this? I can't find this in the case or rule book. I do see in case play 7.5.2 Sit A where the throw in is by the wrong team, but it's not very clear if the throw-in must be completed before we cannot correct this. In the caseplay, the throw in was completed and no correction is allowed. I guess my question is, does the throw-in have to end. In your scenario the throw in started and the ball could be passed onto the playing court, but not yet been touched. I'm not sure if I'm going to correct that, even though it is the right thing to do. Any thoughts or additional references are appreciated.

See case book play 6.4.1SitD.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

See case book play 6.4.1SitD.

Thanks JR.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I don't see how the ball is dead. There's no violation or foul to cause the ball to become dead. The whistle is what makes the ball dead.

I do find it interesting that 2-3 (the God rule) is invoked by the case play, rather than 2-10.

It's dead becasue it was a FT that was to be followed by another FT...per the announcement of the official...even if it was an erroneous announcement. The whistle only announces to everyone that the ball was already dead.