"Doing it right" vs. OOO

[M&M Guy]

There's been a couple of threads recently that have prompted me to ask how people determine the difference between doing the right way, according to the rules, and still not be an "Overly Officious Official". I know this has to be a confusing thing for a new official; heck, I'm still trying to sort it out after all these years.

For example, determining the OOB spot on a throw-in. Scrapper corrected my triangle picture, and he is right. But I've never gotten in trouble for putting the ball at the wrong spot, unless I totally blew the call. I think most would agree that putting the ball at the proper spot is important. But on the other end of the spectrum are the officials that tomegun will be working with - they probably feel the ball needs to be OOB, who cares if it's at the "exact, pin-point placement"? If you continue to put it at the proper spot, instead of occasionally at the "easiest" spot, are you being an OOO? How do you explain to someone that, in this case, they are lazy and you are "doing it right"?

Which then brings up the other situation, where the officials saw the removal of the jerseys after the game and called the T's. Why is the general consensus that the officials were OOO's, even though what they did was perfectly within the rules. How do you argue the point if they say they are "doing it right", while the officials that high-tail it out of there as quickly as possible are the lazy ones?

I'm not trying to argue each situation; that should be left for those individual threads. I'm just trying to find out how others draw the line, and how they would explain that to newer officials. Granted, there is probably a bit of "local" influence on that line, but I would think there is still a line somewhere.

[just another ref]

I think this is waaaaay too broad a question to have a simple answer, so we can all just wait for Nevada, I suppose.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I think this is waaaaay too broad a question to have a simple answer, so we can all just wait for Nevada, I suppose.

Chicken.

[rockyroad]

In each situation, I simply pause for a second and ask myself "WWJD?" which is short for "What would Jurassic do?"

Once I figure out the answer to that question, I simply do the opposite...hasn't failed me yet!

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

There's been a couple of threads recently that have prompted me to ask how people determine the difference between doing the right way, according to the rules, and still not be an "Overly Officious Official". I know this has to be a confusing thing for a new official; heck, I'm still trying to sort it out after all these years.

For example, determining the OOB spot on a throw-in. Scrapper corrected my triangle picture, and he is right. But I've never gotten in trouble for putting the ball at the wrong spot, unless I totally blew the call. I think most would agree that putting the ball at the proper spot is important. But on the other end of the spectrum are the officials that tomegun will be working with - they probably feel the ball needs to be OOB, who cares if it's at the "exact, pin-point placement"? If you continue to put it at the proper spot, instead of occasionally at the "easiest" spot, are you being an OOO? How do you explain to someone that, in this case, they are lazy and you are "doing it right"?

Which then brings up the other situation, where the officials saw the removal of the jerseys after the game and called the T's. Why is the general consensus that the officials were OOO's, even though what they did was perfectly within the rules. How do you argue the point if they say they are "doing it right", while the officials that high-tail it out of there as quickly as possible are the lazy ones?

I'm not trying to argue each situation; that should be left for those individual threads. I'm just trying to find out how others draw the line, and how they would explain that to newer officials. Granted, there is probably a bit of "local" influence on that line, but I would think there is still a line somewhere.

It's like George Carlin's joke about other drivers being maniacs or idiots.

Those who call more strictly than I do are OOO. Those that call less strictly are lazy.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

In each situation, I simply pause for a second and ask myself "WWJD?" which is short for "What would Jurassic do?"

Once I figure out the answer to that question, I simply do the opposite...hasn't failed me yet!

Oooooooooo........

If someone ever explains that to him, you're gonna be in deep doo-doo.

[Y2Koach]

I always appreciate an official that administers the OOB at the correct spot. We have plays set up for frontcourt baseline inbounds, frontcourt sideline inbounds, back court sideline inbounds, etc... so if the ball is supposed to be on the sideline but the official rushes guys to the nearest baseline spot to hurry up the game, it is difficult for 5 guys to get coordinated and set up properly. Not a huge deal for most cases, but if our opponent is giving up layups on our baseline inbounds play and the official puts a ball in play on the sideline because he's sloppy or lazy, it can cost us some easy points.

Any extreme case of this happened a few years ago. Down by 2, 7 seconds left, we get a steal near the top of the key area in our backcourt and call time out (rather, we request a time out and the nearest official grants it, thank you). As my players are headed to the our bench, I ask the official where the ball will be inbounded, and he points to the sideline in front of the opposing bench and says "right there coach". I draw up a play where my fastest player will receive the ball in front of the opposing bench which allows him to curl and attack the middle of the court with his right hand going full speed. Coming out of the timeout huddle, I see the other official holding the ball at the end line, but then walking to the sideline opposite the opposing bench.

Im frantically trying to find out why they switched sides and the other official says "that's where the nearest point was when you got the steal". I ask to confer with both officials, telling them that I specifically asked one of them where the ball would be inbounded and they told me verbally, as well as pointingto, the sideline in front of the opposing bench. The official that told me that says "my bad, its his call". The other official says to me "whats the difference? You wouldnt want to inbound it right in front of their bench anyways, would you?" I reply "I want to inbound it where your partner told me we were supposed to inbound it, where I went into my timeout being told it would be inbounded and where I drew up my play based on where he told me it was gonna be inbounded". I have no timeouts left, and obviously the officials are not going to grant my rhetorical request of "can I get another timeout then since you lied to me??!?"

We try to adjust our play on the fly but alas the only shot we manage to get is an off-balance 17 footer that rims out.

[Coltdoggs]

I'll answer the OOB spot question and throw in some commentary....

By choice, I've stayed at the JRHS level and work as a ref and serve on a rec league board that plays grades 3-8. I've done some Frosh/JV level stuff at our local hoops facililty that runs travel/AAU (better competition teams if you will...) in my 7 years of doing this hobby of mine...I treat it all the same in most respects but I've learned to adjust to lower level players who are "learning" and I know that you can't call the little kids the way you do the big kids...

Some guys might say the level I have chosen to stay at is not real hoops...I've had some tell me they would NEVER work anything but HS....I have been asked by some Varsity level officials that I've worked with to consider a move up and that they would work with me without reservation beacause I do treat it serious at lower levels....

But, this is the level I enjoy and I've just not had the desire to move up yet...What I am finding is that I am having less tolerance for anything less than about 6th grade now...

I treat whatever level I'm doing serious. With the exception of switching on every call (when you run 4-5 games in a row, you save a bit of energy here)....I use the proper mechanics and always hustle to be in position and I try to put the ball in where it should be based on the NFHS "trapezoid".....

I think a lot of it has to do with the level of the players. I agree that this is a very broad question, but the higher up you go, I think the more officious you need to be.
Personally, I try to call a consistent game no matter what, but I'm certainly less picky about things at the 6/7 grade level than a JV game.
I hear some people talk about officiating a 6th grade girls game like it was the state championship. That is a little over the top IMO.

[tomegun]

I put the ball in the correct place because that is how I've been schooled, it is the right thing to do and it closes a small opportunity for a coach to get on the crew.
For instance, if I'm at the C opposite and the Lead calls a foul I will put the ball on the Lead's side of the lane even if it is borderline. In my mind, a coach could question an official calling out of their area if the ball is continually going to a spot out of their primary. Forget being the easiest; we are going to cover a lot of ground and I don't think 10 more steps or so during the night will hurt me.

As far as things happening after the game, I have my methods for that too (I think about all this stuff and do things for a reason or I'm anal ). I don't run off the court. I walk briskly, but I don't focus or make eye contact with anyone. I'm very aware of my surroundings but I take a direct route to the locker room. Focusing on anyone can give them the opportunity to get your attention and say whatever to you. I've seen someone smile and extend a hand on the way out only to take the opportunity to rip the official a new one.

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

There's been a couple of threads recently that have prompted me to ask how people determine the difference between doing the right way, according to the rules, and still not be an "Overly Officious Official". I know this has to be a confusing thing for a new official; heck, I'm still trying to sort it out after all these years.

For example, determining the OOB spot on a throw-in. Scrapper corrected my triangle picture, and he is right. But I've never gotten in trouble for putting the ball at the wrong spot, unless I totally blew the call. I think most would agree that putting the ball at the proper spot is important. But on the other end of the spectrum are the officials that tomegun will be working with - they probably feel the ball needs to be OOB, who cares if it's at the "exact, pin-point placement"? If you continue to put it at the proper spot, instead of occasionally at the "easiest" spot, are you being an OOO? How do you explain to someone that, in this case, they are lazy and you are "doing it right"?

Which then brings up the other situation, where the officials saw the removal of the jerseys after the game and called the T's. Why is the general consensus that the officials were OOO's, even though what they did was perfectly within the rules. How do you argue the point if they say they are "doing it right", while the officials that high-tail it out of there as quickly as possible are the lazy ones?

I'm not trying to argue each situation; that should be left for those individual threads. I'm just trying to find out how others draw the line, and how they would explain that to newer officials. Granted, there is probably a bit of "local" influence on that line, but I would think there is still a line somewhere.

It takes experience to and yes knowing local custom to know what to take a hard line on and what not to. Through trial and error you'll figure it out.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

This is my pet peeve inbounding the ball at the proper place. There's no question that you can give a team an advantage/disadvantage they don't deserve. To me this is NOT being OOO. Removing jerseys (usually occurs when a player fouls out) I think when it's done the player is trying to "show you up." The only time I had this happen was in an 8th grade game. Players team was down by about 15 points or so with 2 or 3 minutes left in the game. I thought about Teeing him but decided against it. The game was basically over. I did, however, explain it to the AD who was unaware (surprise, surprise) of the rule. Neither Coach knew the rule as well. However, I have given this some thought and I think I was wrong in NOT applying the rule. It was easy to ignore the rule with the game basically over. What if it was closer. Not applying the rule properly could have made a difference.

IMO, this is an easy and automatic T, every time. It's one of those rules where "time and distance" mean nothing.

Next time, ring him up.

[Coltdoggs]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

IMO, this is an easy and automatic T, every time. It's one of those rules where "time and distance" mean nothing.

Next time, ring him up.

I would agree with this....you may save this kid a scholarship later in HS when a college scout is there to watch him and he fouls out and this happens and the scout decides they don't want the "head cases" in the program....

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by PYRef

I hear some people talk about officiating a 6th grade girls game like it was the state championship. That is a little over the top IMO.

Yep, glad it's your opinion. The kids are playing hard why shouldn't you work hard just as well for them?

[Coltdoggs]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Yep, glad it's your opinion. The kids are playing hard why shouldn't you work hard just as well for them?

I don't think he meant from a working hard standpoint...You just can't call that level the way you would an upper level game...Get in position, use proper mechanics, be polite/professional... sure....

I'll open up a can of worms with this....But if the 6th grader in the rec league happens to move his pivot slightly, I might be more apt to allow this early in the season..(some might say call it, it's the only way they learn).....I'm not trying to call every minor incident of travelling for a lower level game...The kids need to learn, yes...but they also need to understand that the game is fun....I could call a travel or foul for contact just about every trip in some games....How much fun is that for the kids though?

It's a fine line....