Finding a Crew

[Rich]

Originally Posted by eyezen

First off I'm glad your scheduling situation works out for you.

Just curious, do you ever feel that working with the same two people makes you complacent?

Throwing this out there for debate. What about the (perceived or real) issue that a coach/AD could hire/not hire you or a now a whole crew depending on how it befitted his/her team vs a particular opponent? Now coach B could think not only did we get "homer ref" but now it's "homer crew"?

Yes it's easy for an AD to assign, working with one instead of three. Yes its nice for you because your comfortable. But is it best for the game? Being hired individually by an assigner with random partners would alleviate all those concerns in my opinion.

Complacent? Nope. It's called pride and all three of us have it.

I have to work the game exactly the same as if I was working with two people I didn't know. I think I work even better with these guys -- I have no temptation to work more than 1/3 of the game because I know these guys and how good they are.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

I too have a partner and we have a third for our 3 person games as well. We contact AD's ourselves to contract for games JV and below. Varsity contests are scheduled by conference commissioners who I assume are the same as your assigners.

If a commissioner contacts the head of our association to get officials for varsity contests - a 3 man committee of experienced officials in the association assign them to the people who have enough officiating experience - that they feel would do a good job, and usually to partners if possible. There have been times when partners have been split because one was not yet ready for that level of play. Other times - partners may split for an evening if one or the other has some type of conflict with a particular team. example - I was once assigned to do a varsity game for the school I work for. I called the commisioner and explained I had a conflict. He called the association president and he and I did one game, my partner and his partner did the other at my school. It all works pretty well.

You're in a different area of WI than me, cause our association assigns nothing.

You're right -- the commissioners are the assignors. Only nonconference games are assigned by the schools where I live.

I have ten of them instead of one and it means I don't have to tolerate if one of them does something unacceptable. I can work out my contracts and not schedule with those assignors again.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by eyezen

I work with a crew every night I work. My two partners and me are my "crew", we work together and I trust them and they trust me.

Then the next night I get to work with a new crew.

I have by quirks of scheduling worked with the same people more than two games in a row, i personally don't like it.

I feel working with new people keeps me sharp and focused and makes me take care of my own business. My opinion.

I'm not a loner and I like the company I keep. *We* take care of business. My partners and I are a team.

So be it. It works for me, but I could just as easily go back to having a single assignor, although I would have less ability to turn down games that way.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by eyezen

I work with a crew every night I work. My two partners and me are my "crew", we work together and I trust them and they trust me.

Then the next night I get to work with a new crew.

I have by quirks of scheduling worked with the same people more than two games in a row, i personally don't like it.

I feel working with new people keeps me sharp and focused and makes me take care of my own business. My opinion.

I'm far more comfortable working with same guys. In my case, I focus on the calls more and have more trust in my partners , the mechanics , rotations, switches become second nature. The fear of the unknown isn't there.

Just my opinion too.

[chartrusepengui]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

You're in a different area of WI than me, cause our association assigns nothing.

Our association only assigns what the AD's or Comissioners have been unable to do on their own for whatever reason

You're right -- the commissioners are the assignors. Only nonconference games are assigned by the schools where I live.

I have ten of them instead of one and it means I don't have to tolerate if one of them does something unacceptable. I can work out my contracts and not schedule with those assignors again.

This is the part I love - after a season or so - I find they are more than willing to eat a little crow because they are having such a difficult time getting officials. They find that unacceptable to one is usually unacceptable to many!

[eyezen]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I'm not a loner and I like the company I keep. *We* take care of business. My partners and I are a team.

Good debate, some more questions I have...

If you do have a bad game can you really have a fresh start the next night?

What would happen to your friendship(s) if something went awry?

If someone gets sick or hurt is the whole crew done?

What about the issue of advancement? Do you take that into consideration? Is it a "as the crew goes" mentality? Do you fear that a partner(s) could hold you back because you're now viewed as a single crew? Are you trying to advance only as a crew?

If this is the best way, then why isn't it this way in College/NBA?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fullor30

I'm far more comfortable working with same guys. In my case, I focus on the calls more and have more trust in my partners , the mechanics , rotations, switches become second nature. The fear of the unknown isn't there.

Just my opinion too.

Nothing wrong with being comfortable, but that can also be a problem (not with the individual, but for the game). If you only work with the same person, you forget to do the little things that got you to where you are unless you take great strides to keep your edge. I am just saying I have seen officials that work with the same person so long, that they forget to keep up on mechanics or procedures because it is not in the way they have been doing things for years. And personally I liked working with the same people, but the reality is when I work post season and college games, I cannot choose who I work with at all. Working with the same person is nice on many levels, but the higher you go the less you have that privilege. And I also like working with different people because I tend to learn more from those different styles and personalities which I feel prepares you for more unusual situations. Not all things work for everyone equally.

Peace

[chartrusepengui]

Originally Posted by eyezen

Good debate, some more questions I have...

If you do have a bad game can you really have a fresh start the next night?


Absolutely - we do a postgame together - discuss what went wrong. In pregame next night we review how we are going to improve from the previous game.

What would happen to your friendship(s) if something went awry?

We haven't had that problem - we don't blame each other for problems. It isn't a "you missed a rotation", it's we need to watch each other more closely - I didn't feel we did a good enough job at that tonight. I think we are hardest on ourselves than the others. If there was a problem where one is weak - we usually bring it up on our own. "I wasn't with it tonight - I know I missed a couple rotations"

If someone gets sick or hurt is the whole crew done?

This is where you have to adapt. Last year, my 2 man partner had knee surgery in August. I did some games with someone else who was ready to start moving up. My partner came along with us and after game did a critique.

What about the issue of advancement? Do you take that into consideration? Is it a "as the crew goes" mentality? Do you fear that a partner(s) could hold you back because you're now viewed as a single crew? Are you trying to advance only as a crew?

The way our crew works together we don't worry about being "held back". We work together and help each other. If there comes a time I feel I am holding them back - I will step aside and tell them they need to find someone who is able to progress further with them. I feel they would do the same. There may come a time we all say - hey lets cut back - do less or lower level games together.

If this is the best way, then why isn't it this way in College/NBA?

Don't have any idea - but are you implying the College/NBA do it better?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by eyezen

Good debate, some more questions I have...

If you do have a bad game can you really have a fresh start the next night?

What would happen to your friendship(s) if something went awry?

If someone gets sick or hurt is the whole crew done?

What about the issue of advancement? Do you take that into consideration? Is it a "as the crew goes" mentality? Do you fear that a partner(s) could hold you back because you're now viewed as a single crew? Are you trying to advance only as a crew?

If this is the best way, then why isn't it this way in College/NBA?

College is a hybrid, actually. Many assignors, but you work with different guys all the time. We could do the same thing here, too, but the assignors want to assign as a pair/threesome so I'd still have to arrange a partner for each conference.

I don't worry about advancement. The playoffs here are assigned......well, the way they are assigned. I worry about the things I control.

My partner works college women's and I will work with more people this year as his schedule grows. I have no desire to work college basketball. I am a good HS official and I'm happy with that.

There have been the occasional strains on friendship, but I think it works better than working with a guy you can't stand and not saying anything post-game because you won't see the guy again for 2 seasons. It was far easier to subscribe to "get in, get done, get out" in that system than when you have 3 more games that week with the same guy.

[eyezen]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

College is a hybrid, actually.

What leagues/level/region would this be? I'm unfamiliar with any college assignor/league/system using packaged crews (not being derogatory, just couldn't find another way to put it )

[eyezen]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

Don't have any idea - but are you implying the College/NBA do it better?

Well, as this thread proves I guess better is in the eye of the beholder. However I do think that at these levels they would tend to do it the best way possible. Would you think that the NCAA/NBA leagues would assign games in a manner that are not in their best interests?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

Don't have any idea - but are you implying the College/NBA do it better?

I would say the way they do things is the best way.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by eyezen

What leagues/level/region would this be? I'm unfamiliar with any college assignor/league/system using packaged crews (not being derogatory, just couldn't find another way to put it )

It's a hybrid in that officials work for multiple assignors. Nobody's exclusive (or I should say forced to be).

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

I thought that was legal only in Vermont.

Watch it. I didn't vote for that screamer. Not even once.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Nothing wrong with being comfortable, but that can also be a problem (not with the individual, but for the game). If you only work with the same person, you forget to do the little things that got you to where you are unless you take great strides to keep your edge. I am just saying I have seen officials that work with the same person so long, that they forget to keep up on mechanics or procedures because it is not in the way they have been doing things for years. And personally I liked working with the same people, but the reality is when I work post season and college games, I cannot choose who I work with at all. Working with the same person is nice on many levels, but the higher you go the less you have that privilege. And I also like working with different people because I tend to learn more from those different styles and personalities which I feel prepares you for more unusual situations. Not all things work for everyone equally.

Peace

JR......

The grass is greener theory is where I'm at. I don't have a crew and always work with someone new. The few times I've had the same partner/partners is like the first few months of dating.......it's all good.

I agree that you could become complacent and sloppy with same crew as it would be easier to slack off in various areas.
In the case of replacing a crew member, it would be like a divorce to tell an old partner you're ditching him for a "trophy ref".

I'll trust your judgement as you've had it both ways with partners. I'm still on that love boat cruise.