The Official Forum - Is this a T?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jdw3018

For the very same reason as the original post here - the ball is not in possession of A1.

In both situations the ball is NOT in physical (holding) possession of A1. It's on the floor. In #2 only when A1 starts to bend down to pick it up is when B touches it.

I think I'd go with the delay warning. A better method (although no foundation in the rulesbook) might be to "T" the throwing team for being stupid enough to leave the ball unattended and lead us into a mess like that. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by truerookie

In both situations the ball is NOT in physical (holding) possession of A1. It's on the floor. In #2 only when A1 starts to bend down to pick it up is when B touches it.

Well, the difference was that A1 had already possessed the ball before putting it back down. And I, personally, don't agree with that interpretation. I've got a delay warning in both cases, IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Junker

A better method (although no foundation in the rulesbook) might be to "T" the throwing team for being stupid enough to leave the ball unattended and lead us into a mess like that. :D

Rule 11-4-2c ... doing anything that really annoys the official.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Rule 11-4-2c ... doing anything that really annoys the official.

Hey, that's a new one. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by truerookie

Hey, that's a new one. :D

Yea, that's only the Fed reference. I don't know NCAA or FIBA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Yea, that's only the Fed reference. I don't know NCAA or FIBA.

Same in NCAA, rule 11.

In FIBA, it's a metric reference, so I'll let Padgett covert it.

Is Rule 11 like the missing Books from the Bible? How do I go about receiving the latest copy...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

It was not my intent to have people get hung up on debating whether or not this action constitutes a pass. Therefore, I will slightly change the play.

1. The throw-in is a designated spot throw-in, but Team A does not make a thrower immediately available so the official sounds the whistle and places the ball on the floor. B1 is confused and reaches across the boundary plane and grabs the ball.

2. The throw-in is a designated spot throw-in. The official hands the ball to A1 and he sets the ball down on the floor between his legs, but he is not touching the ball, and proceeds to give hand signals to his teammates for two seconds. When he starts to bend down to pick up the ball, B1 reaches across the boundary plane and grabs the ball.

I do not differentiate between case 1 or 2. Meaning to me they are both the same. In each case the ball was at the disposal of the thrower-in and in each case Team B crosses the boundary and grabs the ball. My immediate thoughts are a T. However, if I am bound by the word "possession" in the rule, then I am left with a delay on Team B or blow the play dead and start over.:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splute

"Possession" here isn't defined. If A1 sets the ball down for a moment, he's still in possession even if he's not holding it at the moment. To me, #2 is a T.

I'm still not sure on #1, so I'd probably just give the warning; unless A1 was about to pick the ball up, then I'd give the T.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Is Rule 11 like the missing Books from the Bible? How do I go about receiving the latest copy...

Great. Now we have apocryphal rules?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Following a goal by Team B, A1 collects the ball and steps OOB. He does not attempt to make a throw-in pass, but merely places the ball down on the floor and leaves. It is unclear why. Perhaps another teammate is supposed to come along, pick it up, and make the throw-in pass. However, in the meantime the official has begun the five-second count and B1, who is standing inbounds, reaches through the throw-in boundary plane and picks up the ball. He then attempts to score a goal.

The official sounds the whistle and:
1. gives a team delay of game warning for breaking the boundary plane.
2. gives a team delay of game warning AND a charges B1 with a technical foul.

Vote for #1 or #2 and give rules support.

I want to add:

3. gives a team delay of game warning for interfering with the ball following a goal...4-47-3

This is my take on this
#1 is not correct 9-2-10 The opponent of the thrower shall not have any part of his/her person through the inbounds side of the throw-in boundry... Since there is no thrower this rule can't be applied.

After reading the second situation submitted, I withdraw this statement and opt for the boundary plane warning based on the premise that a thrower does not have to be physically present to have a violation just as no thrower has to be physically present to have a 5 second violation.

#2 is incorrect. It is not correct to assess a T because in 9-2-10 penalty 3 the touching/dislodging must be while thrower is in possession of the ball or while the a pass to a teammate is being made.

Isn't possesion and disposal synonymous to one another?

Quote:

Originally Posted by truerookie

Isn't possesion and disposal synonymous to one another?

I don't know. Good question. Why didn't the fed say "at the disposal of," or conversely, why didn't they say "while it's being held or passed?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by truerookie

Isn't possesion and disposal synonymous to one another?

That has been my logic to this point. It seems we are getting to the point on this forum that if the rule doesnt say the exact wording that meets the exact situtation at that exact moment ...... then what applies? intent applies, advantage / disadvantage applies, case plays apply, similar rulings perhaps... why doesnt possession and disposal in this case? or does it?