Is this a T?

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

#2.

10-3-11 Reach through the throw-in boundary-line plane and touch or dislodge the ball as in 9-2 Penalty 3.

There is no requirement that the ball be in physical possession of an A player, but a definite prohibition against reaching through the plane and touching the ball.

Actually, what NevadaRef is getting at is, 9-2 Penalty 3 does in fact say "...and touches or doslodges the ball while in possession of the thrower or being passed to a teammate outside the boundary line..."

And so, the correct call is, a warning for delay for breaking the plane of the boundary. Of course, if the team has already previously received a delay of game warning for any of the delay warnings, this becomes a technical foul.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

I think you are incorrect. Read 9-2 Penalty 3 again.

Hmmm...I is idiot. Outside the boundary line does, indeed, mean someone outide the boundary line...

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Hmmm...I is idiot. Outside the boundary line does, indeed, mean someone outide the boundary line...

I originally misread your post. I stand corrected.

[BayStateRef]

This is a wonderful example of how complicated the rules are written. 10-3-11 should specifically read it is a technical foul to reach through the plane and touch or dislodge the ball "while in possession of the thrower or being passed to a teammate outside the boundary line."

The shorthand reference "as in 9-2 Penalty 3" says exactly that.

My ruling...no technical foul unless there is a previous warning for one of the four delays.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

I originally misread your post. I stand corrected.

No, you read it right - I misread the rule. In my head, I was thinking it stated passing it to someone inside the boundary, not outside. So, technical if it's in A's possession or being passed to A2 outside the boundary line.

[rainmaker]

If there were a teammate of A1 standing outside the boundary, and A1 put the ball down and stepped inbounds, and then A2 walked over and picked the ball up, would you call it a pass?

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

If there were a teammate of A1 standing outside the boundary, and A1 put the ball down and stepped inbounds, and then A2 walked over and picked the ball up, would you call it a pass?

no.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

If there were a teammate of A1 standing outside the boundary, and A1 put the ball down and stepped inbounds, and then A2 walked over and picked the ball up, would you call it a pass?

4-31.

Not a pass.

[Adam]

I really don't like this loop hole. If A1 drops the ball and lets it bounce in place while A2 comes and gets it, it's a pass. If A1 sets the ball down so it will be sure to stay where he wants it while A2 comes to get it, I sure could consider it a pass.

BTW, a drop pass does not fit the definition of 4-31, either, yet it's a common tool for good point guards.

And, if this ball is rolling ever so slightly and slowly, it suddenly fits 4-31 and you need to call the technical anyway. I doubt the intent of the rule is for us to split this hair so finely.

[Nevadaref]

It was not my intent to have people get hung up on debating whether or not this action constitutes a pass. Therefore, I will slightly change the play.

1. The throw-in is a designated spot throw-in, but Team A does not make a thrower immediately available so the official sounds the whistle and places the ball on the floor. B1 is confused and reaches across the boundary plane and grabs the ball.

2. The throw-in is a designated spot throw-in. The official hands the ball to A1 and he sets the ball down on the floor between his legs, but he is not touching the ball, and proceeds to give hand signals to his teammates for two seconds. When he starts to bend down to pick up the ball, B1 reaches across the boundary plane and grabs the ball.

[Ref in PA]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

It was not my intent to have people get hung up on debating whether or not this action constitutes a pass. Therefore, I will slightly change the play.

1. The throw-in is a designated spot throw-in, but Team A does not make a thrower immediately available so the official sounds the whistle and places the ball on the floor. B1 is confused and reaches across the boundary plane and grabs the ball.

2. The throw-in is a designated spot throw-in. The official hands the ball to A1 and he sets the ball down on the floor between his legs, but he is not touching the ball, and proceeds to give hand signals to his teammates for two seconds. When he starts to bend down to pick up the ball, B1 reaches across the boundary plane and grabs the ball.

I had situation 1 in a varsity girls game about 3 years ago. The teams were not very good. When I set the ball down and began my count the girl on defense thought it was a free ball and grabbed it. I stifled a giggle when she told me why she thought she could grab the ball. I did issue a delay of game warning to team B, and that move allowed team A to figure out "Hey, I am supposed to inbound the ball!" B were double losers - they got a delay warning and they alerted A to the fact they were supposed to throw in the ball. I remember all five girls from A wondering around on the court, none of them interested in throwing in the ball. I yelled White ball twice and then set the ball down. Team A, dressed in white were from a predominately black school while team B, dressed in black were from a predominately white school. Maybe that is what confused them???

[Adam]

1. Boundary plane violation.
2. Technical foul. I consider this possession for the purpose of this rule.

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

1. Boundary plane violation.
2. Technical foul. I consider this possession for the purpose of this rule.

I agree with Snags. Tech because player reached through the throw-in boundary-line plane and touch the ball before throw in count ended

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

1. Boundary plane violation.
2. Technical foul. I consider this possession for the purpose of this rule.

Why not T in both situation? My line of thinking is once the ball is place on the floor it is at the disposal of thrower-in. The rule still apply right? Am I missing something?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Why not T in both situation? My line of thinking is once the ball is place on the floor it is at the disposal of thrower-in. The rule still apply right? Am I missing something?

For the very same reason as the original post here - the ball is not in possession of A1.