Good gosh! I kicked it

[FrankHtown]

Within 2 weeks of the question being posted on here and answered correctly, I kicked it.

I was Trail (3 person). Inexperienced Lead is administering a front court throw in. Ball is released and in the air, when I hear a whistle from Lead. Whaddayagot? A 5 second violation. So I went and asked him was the ball not released in 5 secinds? He said yes it was, but it wasn't touched by anyone in 5 seconds. I said the ball only has to be released within 5 seconds. So we called it an inadvertant whistle. Then I, using impeccable logic, said since no team had control, we go to the arrow. Nobody complained. Ten seconds later I said to my self...you dumba**...we devoted 3 pages, I think, to this issue. Should have just let team A inbound the ball again .

Thank goodness for scrimmages

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by FrankHtown

Within 2 weeks of the question being posted on here and answered correctly, I kicked it.

I was Trail (3 person). Inexperienced Lead is administering a front court throw in. Ball is released and in the air, when I hear a whistle from Lead. Whaddayagot? A 5 second violation. So I went and asked him was the ball not released in 5 secinds? He said yes it was, but it wasn't touched by anyone in 5 seconds. I said the ball only has to be released within 5 seconds. So we called it an inadvertant whistle. Then I, using impeccable logic, said since no team had control, we go to the arrow. Nobody complained. Ten seconds later I said to my self...you dumba**...we devoted 3 pages, I think, to this issue. Should have just let team A inbound the ball again .

Thank goodness for scrimmages

LOL, Frank! Experience is really the best teacher. Talking is just another way to speed up the process of experiential learning. So now that you've hashed it through, and goofed, and then re-hashed it in your mind, you'll never make that mistake again. You're golden!

[Splute]

LOL is right.. or can you laugh about it yet? hee hee. I guess your partner(s) skipped training camp?? It will be a good learning experience for your partners too; everyone learns something. As mentioned, that is what scrimmages are for... to get you back in game mode mentally & physically. Nice of you to share.

[Adam]

I'm curious. What made you check on your partner here?

[FrankHtown]

The span of time between the release of the ball and the whistle. I knew just from your "internal clock" that it was getting close to 5 seconds, and the ball was in the air, almost from the endline to near mid court, when the whistle sounded. His whistle didn't sound until the ball was well on it's way, and he never made a clear signal what he had. Thats why i asked him what he had.

He learned something, and I was reminded of something.

[Adam]

Makes sense to me. Good catch.

[Nevadaref]

Hopefully, both of you will never make either of those mistakes again. I don't mind mistakes. I just have a problem with not learning from them and repeating them.

[Idaho]

Once again, I don't have my rule books with me. Can someone clarify on the OP?

Is the rule on IW during no team control POI? Is that a new rule?

Thanks.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Idaho

Once again, I don't have my rule books with me. Can someone clarify on the OP?

Is the rule on IW during no team control POI? Is that a new rule?

Thanks.

Yes, POI governs this play.

RULE 4, SECTION 36 POINT OF INTERRUPTION
ART. 1 . . . Method of resuming play due to an official's accidental whistle, an interrupted game, as in 5-4-3, a correctable error, as in 2-10-6, a double personal, double technical or simultaneous foul, as in 4-19-8 and 4-19-10.
ART. 2 …Play shall be resumed by one of the following:
a. A throw-in to the team that was in control at a spot nearest to where the ball was located when the stoppage occurred.
b. A free throw or a throw-in when the stoppage occurred during this activity or if a team is entitled to such.
c. An alternating-possession throw-in when the point of interruption is such that neither team is in control and no goal, infraction, nor end of quarter/extra period is involved.

[Adam]

No this is not a new rule.

[Nevadaref]

The NFHS POI rule was adopted in the 2005-06 season, and if Idaho wasn't officiating for a couple of years, it is new to him.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Yes, POI governs this play.

RULE 4, SECTION 36 POINT OF INTERRUPTION
ART. 1 . . . Method of resuming play due to an official's accidental whistle, an interrupted game, as in 5-4-3, a correctable error, as in 2-10-6, a double personal, double technical or simultaneous foul, as in 4-19-8 and 4-19-10.
ART. 2 …Play shall be resumed by one of the following:
a. A throw-in to the team that was in control at a spot nearest to where the ball was located when the stoppage occurred.
b. A free throw or a throw-in when the stoppage occurred during this activity or if a team is entitled to such.
c. An alternating-possession throw-in when the point of interruption is such that neither team is in control and no goal, infraction, nor end of quarter/extra period is involved.

But, here's another test/study guide question:

While A1's pass is in the air to A2, B1 deflects the pass. Official inadvertently sounds the whistle and grants a time out requested by team A's coach. Official rules the time-ou cannot be denied or revoked and after the time-out has expired, uses the alternating possession procedure to resume play.
Ruling: Correct procedure

According to what is written above, this is not the correct procedure. Team A still has team control, so we must give the ball back to team A, even if a B player was inches away from gaining possession? Doesn't seem remotely fair to me. Or is this one of those "in control" does not mean "team control" things that we have argued about before?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by just another ref

But, here's another test/study guide question:

While A1's pass is in the air to A2, B1 deflects the pass. Official inadvertently sounds the whistle and grants a time out requested by team A's coach. Official rules the time-ou cannot be denied or revoked and after the time-out has expired, uses the alternating possession procedure to resume play.
Ruling: Correct procedure

According to what is written above, this is not the correct procedure. Team A still has team control, so we must give the ball back to team A, even if a B player was inches away from gaining possession? Doesn't seem remotely fair to me. Or is this one of those "in control" does not mean "team control" things that we have argued about before?

You are correct that the study guide is incorrect.

Give the ball back to A.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

You are correct that the study guide is incorrect.

Give the ball back to A.

Study guide was not incorrect. It was a true/false question. I'm just saying that it would be nice if there was some provision for recognizing a "loose ball,"
in this situation as well as others. If B1 was about to scoop up the ball and score, the fact that A had "team control" should not enter the equation.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

But, here's another test/study guide question:

While A1's pass is in the air to A2, B1 deflects the pass. Official inadvertently sounds the whistle and grants a time out requested by team A's coach. Official rules the time-ou cannot be denied or revoked and after the time-out has expired, uses the alternating possession procedure to resume play.
Ruling: Correct procedure

According to what is written above, this is not the correct procedure. Team A still has team control, so we must give the ball back to team A, even if a B player was inches away from gaining possession? Doesn't seem remotely fair to me. Or is this one of those "in control" does not mean "team control" things that we have argued about before?

Taken straight from last season's interps.

2006-07 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations

SITUATION 12: A1 is passing the ball to A2 in the frontcourt. The pass is deflected by B1 and is in the air when the official erroneously blows the whistle and grants a time-out request by (a) Team A's head coach, or (b) Team B's head coach. RULING: In (a) and (b), even though there was no player control and the ball was not dead, the time-out is entitled to be used since it was granted. The time-out once granted cannot be revoked and is charged to the appropriate team. The stoppage should be treated as an accidental whistle by the official and play shall resume at the point of interruption. Team A, which was in team control, is entitled to a throw-in at a spot nearest to where the ball was located (last in contact with a player or the court) when the stoppage occurred. (4-36-1, 2a; 5-8-3; 7-4-4)