How much flak do you take?

[ReadyToRef]

First year and I'm still trying to define how much I should take from coaches. We do use the coaches box here but most coaches use it as a howling at the referee box instead of coaching. How much flak should the ref take? We're gettimg a lot of "That's a foul", "You missed two calls on that one play", "That's atravel", etc.etc. Where do you draw the line?

Also, there seems to be a prevalence here for players to react when a foul or violation is called on them or if they think something should be called on the other team. How much do you take from a player before Teeing them up?

[zebraman]

Knowing how much to take is an art, not a science. That's something you'll figure out along the way. I see some refs give a "T" as soon as that starts. To me, that's a little fast because all coaches need a little latitude. Some refs let the coaches whine all night if it isn't done directly at the refs. To me, that's too much and just leads to the players whining and even more from the ignorant fans. If a coach is whining on a lot of calls, I'll try to say something funny to calm his howler butt. If that doesn't work I'll give him the stop sign and say, "that's enough coach." If that fails, now he's getting one of my rare T's. One thing that seems to work for me most of the time is to ask myself, "is a technical foul here going to make the game better or worse."

Z

[Bart Tyson]

Players are just acting like the coaches. Stop the coaches and you will stop the players. When it starts to interupt your concentration to ref the game, then it is time to give the stop sign. Don't be afraid to give a T. Remember a T is just another foul. You whistle fouls all game long. When it comes to players, nip it in a bud quickly. You can't find your comfort zone until you start giving T's.

[Tim Roden]

I actually take quite a bit from coaches. Probably more than I should since while I have been thinking about what the coach just said, my partner has given out a T. Players I take very little.

[moose69]

Depends on the mood I'm in. Depends on the calibre of ball and the age of players. For example, I'm likley to whack a frosh coach quicker because we don't want his players to see what he's doing, think it's alright then start yapping themselves. Also depends on what they say. They swear- T. They come on the court- T. They question my our my partners integrity- T. Our provinical supervisor also tells us to use the accumlation of bull**** policy. It's kind of like every comment they make should be ignored until they have reached the certain number and it's gone on long enough and it's time to stop it. You have to keep in mind what's a flagrant technial and what's not, depending on the severity of the comments..

Tyler

[WI REF]

RTR; Knowing when you have had enough will have to be your decision. It all depends on your personality and how long your fuse is. For me, I usually let the coach whine (no cheese) and complain more then others. As long as it's NOT directed right at me or my mother. But when the coach has began to cross the line, I try and stop him/her. The best way that I have learned is to casually go over there on a dead ball situation and calmly ask the coach to stop. I usually tell them that I hear what they're saying and that I've heard enough. Sometimes I'll say something like "coach, why don't you let me do the officiating and you do the coaching"? I also tell them that the coaches box is intended just for that - coaching.
GOOD LUCK !!!

[dblref]

Funny you should mention this because I had this same situation last night in a rec game (boys-16). We had 2 howler monkeys from the gitgo and both teams mimicked their coach. Everything was questioned even if it was called on the other team. Constant whine/*****/moan. I gave Team A coach the "stop sign" about half way through the 1Q, and told him I did not want to hear anymore comments coming from his bench. Next trip down the court, he and his bench argued OOB call. Coach was really vocal and my partner T'd him. We also had 2 Ts on Team B and in the 3Q, we had 2 more T's on Team A - game over. This league has a rule of 3 T's on a team and game is over. After the game was suspended, the league commissioner came over and told us that we had called the game too tight and we needed to understand that these were not high school teams and the "should be allowed to complain". It was all I could do to not laugh at him. I told him that the same rules apply in rec games as they do in high school games. He said he would talk to our assignor about the "tight calls" and I told him to make sure he pronounced the names right.

I must be trying to tie Mark Dexter for T's.

[Doug]

I think it is a coach's right to whine and complain a little bit. If it is at their players, or anything else not directed at you, and not abusive, don't give a T. As to you, you have to draw the line, once it gets personal, like "hey reff, that was a horrible call" vs. "hey reff, YOU are horrible", there is a difference, and you must distinguish between the 2. Good luck,

[ScottParks]

Last night, 7th grade girls games and the head coach for the home teams always likes to whine. (I've had him before). In my pre-game talk with him I asked him to coach and I would officiate! From the get-go he's whining and crying for fouls. Him: "Moving screen", Me: "there's no contact, coach". Him: "Over the back", Me: "Your player got the ball with only slight contact". Etc, etc., etc. Stop sign given after several "funny looks" when he's begging for calls that aren't there. Finally in the 3rd quarter, right in front of his bench his girl drives around defender who initiates slight contact and falls to the floor. His girls keeps going to the basket and gets off a shot (3 dribbles later). He's screaming that this has to be a foul, on the floor, telling me (loudly) how could I have missed it and "call the foul". So I did! Tweet, technical foul on white coach, 2 shots for visitors. When he sat down, he started coaching and yes, the game got better.

[Mark Dexter]

Dblref, you'll NEVER get as many T's as I have!! HAhahahahahaha!!!

With the "let it go; it's only a rec game," I had something similar Friday night. A1 has a fast break, and I'm new lead. A1 shoots, I see B1 come in with a push - call the foul, made basket, A1 with one shot. However, my partner at trail had a better angle, and was able to see B1 push A1 in the face well after the shot was made, so we switched the call to a flagrant on B1. (Which resulted in quite a large argument over whether or not B1 was ejected, since B4 had been called for a flagrant foul in a prior game and was not ejected). One priceless comment: "We're in college, you have to let us play!"

As to "How much flak?" - I've been getting better as the season has gone by. In a different game Friday, though, I hit the team captain with a T for yelling at me "Where's the call?!!?!" - not much, but the entire team had been yapping the whole first half, and whacking the captain got the whole team to stop complaining.

[Bart Tyson]

dblref, I used to work in a league where the assigner always backed up the officials. Then the assigner moved and the new assigner was not as supportive. So, i quit working that league. Working rec. leagues is a double edge sword. Good experience but gives you bad habits.

[LarryS]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
Working rec. leagues is a double edge sword. Good experience but gives you bad habits.

Got that right. Since my first season is finished with schools, I have started working rec. ball. Figured I would have a good chance to see just about every imaginable scenario (or at least a bunch of them). Problem is you don't always get the best partners (if you get one). I find I really have to focus on mechanics so I don't regress.

On the up side, I am getting more practice on game management skills and I FEEL like my ability to block out noise is getting better and therefore focus more on the game action is getting better.

[JRutledge]

Never back down from a coach. You need to understand that it is your game, not his. You decide how the game is going to be called, and if he or she cannot adjust they do not need to be there. This is the first thing to remember.

But you need to understand when and how to talk to coaches too. Understand that the players are watching what you do with coaches. If a coach continues to ride you about the absurd, the players will start to ride you too. You do not want that. I cannot really tell you when to know and how to know, but even if a coach is yelling "travel, foul, and you got to call that" all night, you need to at some point address. Do not make a public display. All you need to do is quitely tell a coach enough is enough. But that comes with time. Most coaches want to know that you are listening. You just have to let them know sometimes that you are listening, but you are not going to be influenced by their complaining. This takes time and experience, but you cannot let a coach go on and on about the same things. If you do, it spills onto the floor and then you will find yourself give Ts to kids. And this will happen because the kids think they can do what the coach can. You have to use some preventative officiating if you will.

But under no circumstances take personal comments toward you, when they openly question your integrity or when they are all out on the floor complaining about calls. Address these with Ts immediately. But if you do what it takes before that, they might realize that you will not take their crap.

It will come with time.

Peace

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by JRutledge
I cannot really tell you when to know and how to know, but even if a coach is yelling "travel, foul, and you got to call that" all night, you need to at some point address.

The first time I hear a coach yell out a call, I look at him and say, "We'll call the game, coach." I don't know how much clearer you can make it.

[Ralph Stubenthal]

Varsity boys Friday night. Visiting coach comes over to the pregame talk with the captains. I had never seen him before but he seemed like a nice sort of guy with a good sense of humor. After we talked with the captains, we asked if he had any questions. He said no but that he wanted to inform us of a problem he had. He said he had a bad birth defect that we needed to be aware of: He said with a serious face that he was born with weak jaw muscles and he couldn't keep quiet during games but never got personal. We all laughed and I jokingly told him that we had some medication that could cure his problem and I showed him my signal for T ylenol. We all laughed and then started the game. 2 minutes into the game, he got seatbelted. But, even after that, he remained jovial and friendly AND extremely quiet the remainder of the game. He got beat by 10 points and just couldn't believe that our chapter actually called hand checking and so many "over the backs."