New interps Sitch # 10

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Let's say that the very instant that the ball was touched in the backcourt was with 4:23.000 on the clock.

Camron - please tell me what gym in this area has a clock with a "thousands of a second" indicator. I will work to have it declared a tourist attraction.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Camron - please tell me what gym in this area has a clock with a "thousands of a second" indicator. I will work to have it declared a tourist attraction.

Well, I did hear a story once about some super secret facility at the Nike complex...... [/I]

[rainmaker]

[QUOTE=Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Camron, the problem is ...[\quote]

Replying in new thread so that this one might get back to the original topic...

Association politics

Thanks for doing that. I approve

and I'll reply after while, when I've got some time

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Our leadership does back us up - I will agree with that. But I do hear and see mixed signals from more "veteran" referees who try and give advice. Like you say, it's just a part of being in a competitive field. Some say to be tougher - some say be more lenient. There is no firm stance on it, and that is what bothers me. But these are the same people who do the evaluations, so you do what you have to do.

There can never be a firm stance on it. You're dealing with situations and personalities (coaches and officials) that are as varied as anything can be. Basically, it's an art. Those that work college for more than one assignor can tell you this. They have to change things they do from game to game to match what each assignor wants....the assignors never agree on how things should be done. The ones that can adapt from game to game to keep each assignor happy last the longest.

Originally Posted by Smitty

The evaluation process in our association is just awful. It could be fixed, but no one seems to be paying any attention to it right now. Hopefully in a few years things will change - I hear some great ideas being tossed around, so I'm hopeful.

You might be suprised on this point!! Keep your eyes open...something is coming...and soon.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

You might be suprised on this point!! Keep your eyes open...something is coming...and soon.

Ooo, Camron, that's just plain cruel. Just plain mean and nasty. can't you spill just a little hint of detail?? Oh, wait, is Howard still reading the board?

Can you e-mail me privately?? just a little?

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Ooo, Camron, that's just plain cruel. Just plain mean and nasty. can't you spill just a little hint of detail?? Oh, wait, is Howard still reading the board?

Can you e-mail me privately?? just a little?

Juulie - please tell Howard I'd be glad to consult with him on evals. I can show him how I do it for our rec league. It involves a dart board and me keeping a list of how many diet pops each ref buys me during the season. Oh yeah, I give extra points for technicals. The rewards include not being scheduled with Bruce and/or ABC, or having to work the games of certain coaches.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Juulie - please tell Howard I'd be glad to consult with him on evals. I can show him how I do it for our rec league. It involves a dart board and me keeping a list of how many diet pops each ref buys me during the season. Oh yeah, I give extra points for technicals. The rewards include not being scheduled with Bruce and/or ABC, or having to work the games of certain coaches.

Merri?!?!

Where are you??

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

There can never be a firm stance on it. You're dealing with situations and personalities (coaches and officials) that are as varied as anything can be. Basically, it's an art. Those that work college for more than one assignor can tell you this. They have to change things they do from game to game to match what each assignor wants....the assignors never agree on how things should be done. The ones that can adapt from game to game to keep each assignor happy last the longest.

Understood. I've been in 5 different associations, and the PBOA is by far the best, so I am really not unhappy with it at all. I feel like I have been treated more than fairly for my own progress in the association. It's only things like this that make it difficult to know what's really the right way to do things - the things that aren't so black and white. There's a lot of "do as I say, not as I do" advice given from some of the old guard. It makes it tough to take their advice very seriously. I know that Howard will always back me up, and that is a great feeling. You also know that I respect your opinions and appreciate your viewpoints.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

You might be suprised on this point!! Keep your eyes open...something is coming...and soon.

That is OUTSTANDING news! I can't wait to see what they've done. Thanks for the teaser, Camron!

[TimTaylor]

Smitty,

I don't think the situation is as bad as you think. I know that I try very hard to apply the rules the way they're intended and the way our commissioner wants them applied, and I think the majority of the officials in our association do the same. Are there exceptions? Yes there are, and I have seen the evidence of some of the things you described more than once, but don't think it is wide spread or prevalent.

People become officials for a variety of reasons and with different long term goals in mind - nothing wrong with that. IMHO, the goals we should all have in common are to strive to be the best we can be, and to apply the rules fairly and equally to everyone in accordance with the guidelines we're given. Those who, in the words of our commissioner "sell their soul for a bowl of porridge" do a disservice both to the sport and to the rest of us, and make it that much harder to do the job right.

I do agree that there are some problems with the evaluation system as it exists, and am looking forward to seeing the proposed changes Camron mentioned - should be interesting..........

[Smitty]

I agree with you, Tim. And I don't mean to sound like a big grump about it. Like I said, I've been treated more than fair, and I love Howard. I had a great camp this summer, lost 40 pounds, and can't wait for the first meeting. I have never been more excited about an upcoming season.

No more being Debbie Downer for me...moving on.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Smitty

No more being Debbie Downer for me...moving on.

Yea, having a last name like "Downs" can be rough!!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Understood. I've been in 5 different associations, and the PBOA is by far the best, so I am really not unhappy with it at all. I feel like I have been treated more than fairly for my own progress in the association.

Attaboy! Now you've got it. Suck around. You'll progress.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

But simultaneous is not good enough to be a violation...

They must be the last to touch it BEFORE it gains BC status.

They must also be the first to touch it AFTER it gains backcourt status.

The BEFORE requirement is where this fails. Simultaneous doesn't equal before.

Simultaneous, according to the venerable Mr. Webster, means "existing or occuring at the same time"...so the before and after take place at the same time in this scenario...I understand that you don't like the interp., but you really aren't giving a very good argument...the ball has frontcourt status until the moment the player catches it in the backcourt - so the two requirements happen simultaneously.

Anyway...how about them Indians??

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Suck around. You'll progress.

LOL I really want to move up, but even I have my limits!

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Simultaneous, according to the venerable Mr. Webster, means "existing or occuring at the same time"...so the before and after take place at the same time in this scenario...I understand that you don't like the interp., but you really aren't giving a very good argument...the ball has frontcourt status until the moment the player catches it in the backcourt - so the two requirements happen simultaneously.

Anyway...how about them Indians??

Sure the ball has FC status until it is touched in the BC, but before that time that player hadn't touched it (nor had a player of the same team).

Imagine a 80,000# semi approaching an intersection with no traffic controls. The truck is going 75mph. You are in a 1,500# Yugo crossing the intersection on the perpendicular street. You are going 45mph. Do you want to cross the intersection at the same time as the semi or before/after? Go experiment if you like . I guarantee that you'll find that simultaneous and before don't end the same.