Best way to approach a referee

[dkmz17]

How do you "handle" a referee that misapplies a rule etc., during a game, especially if it is a circumstance that will repeat during the game.

Recently, I was involved in a summer league game with 9th and 10th grade girls. The rules for the games are NFHS rules, except that the clock only stops on time outs until the last 2 minutes of each half, at which time the timing is handled as per NFHS rules. Also, the summer league rules specifically state that after a time out by the coaches or an official time out, the clock will restart as it normally would after a dead ball.

Near the end of the second half, with 3:30 remaing in the game, we were called for a foul, sending the other team to the line. Since under the summer rules the clock would continue to run during the free throws, I called timeout to perserve the time on the clock. However, after the time out ended and and the teams lined up for the free throws, the referee told the clock operator to start the clock as soon as he gave the ball to the shooter. I complained that the clock should not start until a throw in after made free throws or until it was touched by a player or touched the court after a miss. The referee told me that the ball became live and the clock started when he handed the ball to the shooter. When I complained again, he told me I needed to "read the rules" and insisted that the clock run.

What can or should be done by a coach in that circumstance?

[JRutledge]

First things first. This is a summer league. There are no standard rules that govern this situation. The official could be completely right based on how the rules are written for this league. It is very hard to know that by what you are telling us now. Usually in most summer leagues I have been associated with the clock would not start just like a regular game.

If you want a one size fits all approach to approach an official, you are not going to find one. There is no one way for all officials to deal with coaches, so you will not find one way to handle this situation. All you can do is try to convince the official what you know the rule to be, but after that they can choose to listen to you or not to listen.

Peace

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by dkmz17

How do you "handle" a referee that misapplies a rule etc., during a game, especially if it is a circumstance that will repeat during the game.

Recently, I was involved in a summer league game with 9th and 10th grade girls. The rules for the games are NFHS rules, except that the clock only stops on time outs until the last 2 minutes of each half, at which time the timing is handled as per NFHS rules. Also, the summer league rules specifically state that after a time out by the coaches or an official time out, the clock will restart as it normally would after a dead ball.

Near the end of the second half, with 3:30 remaing in the game, we were called for a foul, sending the other team to the line. Since under the summer rules the clock would continue to run during the free throws, I called timeout to perserve the time on the clock. However, after the time out ended and and the teams lined up for the free throws, the referee told the clock operator to start the clock as soon as he gave the ball to the shooter. I complained that the clock should not start until a throw in after made free throws or until it was touched by a player or touched the court after a miss. The referee told me that the ball became live and the clock started when he handed the ball to the shooter. When I complained again, he told me I needed to "read the rules" and insisted that the clock run.

What can or should be done by a coach in that circumstance?

Answer 1: It's summer. Let it go.

Answer 2: "I'm not complaining, I just want to be sure we're doing this right. I know all the summer leagues are different. Can we look at the rules that are sitting right here (point to the scorer's table -- and yes, I'm making an assumption)?"

If you don't get the proper response, go to Answer 1. You can get the TD involved later to be sure all the timers know the correct rules for future games.

[Splute]

Again, without knowing the details of your summer league rules, I would have to agree with the actions of the official. Throughout the game you have a running clock, including FTs. Your exceptions state the clock will stop for T.O.s and start again as it normally would after a dead ball. You are inferring that you believe that should be a throwin (except you added the line regarding rebounds on final FT shot. If that is the case then you agree that it does not require a throwin to start the clock "normally". Therefore I agree with the official to start the clock when the ball becomes live, which is when it is given to the shooter; until you reach the 2:00 minute mark in the half.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by dkmz17

Recently, I was involved in a summer league game with 9th and 10th grade girls. The rules for the games are NFHS rules, except that the clock only stops on time outs until the last 2 minutes of each half, at which time the timing is handled as per NFHS rules. Also, the summer league rules specifically state that after a time out by the coaches or an official time out, the clock will restart as it normally would after a dead ball.

I think you have to find out what normally means. Normally according to the summer rules (running clock), or normal according to NHFS rules?

If normal = your summer rules, and had play not been complicated by your granted TO request, the clock would have ran during the FTAs. When resuming play, the player getting control of the ball for the first FT is the logical act to re-start the clock.

If normal = NHFS, then I think the clock should remain stopped during the FTAs, and re-started as you were hoping, depending on the last shot being successful or unsuccessful.

Originally Posted by dkmz17

What can or should be done by a coach in that circumstance?

What can be done? You can bring it up to the officials. You can write to the league after the game is over.

What should be done? If you think a rule is being mis-applied, always speak up. Officials make mistakes, though we do tremendously strive to minimize them. Ultimately, you have to accept their ruling, though.

Originally Posted by dkmz17

How do you "handle" a referee that misapplies a rule etc., during a game, especially if it is a circumstance that will repeat during the game.

Always speak with respect to an official. Raising your voice is unnecessary. Believing that you may enter the playing surface is a no-no. (If an official doesn't een acknowledge you, they are likely a bit over their heads, and if you absolutely need to enter the playing surface, then do so respectfully.) Whenever I speak with a coach, and before I even acknowledge the content on his/her complaint, I walk him/her back to the sideline. I will speak one-on-one with the head coach only (read: assistant coaches are not to speak). I will only acknowledge a rule application and perhaps an interpretation, not a judg(e?)ment call.

Myself, I like the academic approach to officiating. There is tonnes of material behind a rule, such as the intent, spirit, etc. Appealing to that side of me will garnish a better conversation. Every official is different, though. Ultimately, you have to accept my ruling, though.

[Splute]

Well stated JugglingReferee....

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by dkmz17

How do you "handle" a referee that misapplies a rule etc., during a game, especially if it is a circumstance that will repeat during the game.

Recently, I was involved in a summer league game with 9th and 10th grade girls. The rules for the games are NFHS rules, except that the clock only stops on time outs until the last 2 minutes of each half, at which time the timing is handled as per NFHS rules. Also, the summer league rules specifically state that after a time out by the coaches or an official time out, the clock will restart as it normally would after a dead ball.

Near the end of the second half, with 3:30 remaing in the game, we were called for a foul, sending the other team to the line. Since under the summer rules the clock would continue to run during the free throws, I called timeout to perserve the time on the clock. However, after the time out ended and and the teams lined up for the free throws, the referee told the clock operator to start the clock as soon as he gave the ball to the shooter. I complained that the clock should not start until a throw in after made free throws or until it was touched by a player or touched the court after a miss. The referee told me that the ball became live and the clock started when he handed the ball to the shooter. When I complained again, he told me I needed to "read the rules" and insisted that the clock run.

What can or should be done by a coach in that circumstance?

I am going to go against the prevailing school of thought here and state that the game official was wrong.

I have officiated far too many summer league and team camp games over the years which are played using running clocks. The rules in every one of these competitions were and are writtin in the exact same way in which the competition your team was competing. The clock should have been started should have been started per NFHS rules.

MTD, Sr.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I am going to go against the prevailing school of thought here and state that the game official was wrong.

I have officiated far too many summer league and team camp games over the years which are played using running clocks. The rules in every one of these competitions were and are writtin in the exact same way in which the competition your team was competing. The clock should have been started should have been started per NFHS rules.

MTD, Sr.

I tend to agree with you generally Mark but it might also have been possible that a mercy rule was in effect or that the schedule was so backed up it was decided to do it this way. Then the ruling would have been "correct".

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by dkmz17

How do you "handle" a referee that misapplies a rule etc., during a game, especially if it is a circumstance that will repeat during the game.

Politely tell JMO you need to please speak to his partner.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by CoachP

Politely tell JMO you need to please speak to his partner.

Good schmoozing, coach!

[Mark Padgett]

Despite what some of you have said, there is no doubt that the officials handled the situation correctly. I have done literally hundreds upon hundreds of running clock rec games. If the rules state (and they usually do) that the clock stops only for timeouts, then when the timeout is over, the clock starts - period! Since this did not occur during the "stop clock" portion of the game, the officials were absolutely correct in starting the clock when the ball became live. I have never done it any other way and I have never seen it done any other way.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Despite what some of you have said, there is no doubt that the officials handled the situation correctly. I have done literally hundreds upon hundreds of running clock rec games. If the rules state (and they usually do) that the clock stops only for timeouts, then when the timeout is over, the clock starts - period! Since this did not occur during the "stop clock" portion of the game, the officials were absolutely correct in starting the clock when the ball became live. I have never done it any other way and I have never seen it done any other way.

I have worked a few hundred running clock games myself. Usually the games I work are done with HS leagues or HS/College camps. I have never heard of a rule where the clock starts when the ball becomes live after a timeout. With that being said, I am sure this could change from one league to another. So it is very hard to say if the official was at all right without knowing the specifics of this league. I can definitely see the rules applied this way. Most of the time we just do what is typical. This aspect of the rules is usually not clearly stated.

Peace

[ChrisSportsFan]

DKMZ,

You said "you complained" about them starting the clock. Without being there, that is possibly your problem and answer. You complained! We don't know your tone or demeaner during your time of complaining but I could see some refs simply digging their heels in at that time however right or wrong they might be. If this was the umteenth time you complained, maybe they just wanted to run the clock so they could be thru with you. Again, I wasn't there but this might be your answer.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by ChrisSportsFan

If this was the umteenth time you complained, maybe they just wanted to run the clock so they could be thru with you.

I don't believe that they did, but I sure hope that the game officials didn't do this unprofessional and unethical act.

There are more appropriate measures to take care of business.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

I don't believe that they did, but I sure hope that the game officials didn't do this unprofessional and unethical act.

There are more appropriate measures to take care of business.

Agreed, there are certainly more effective ways to end a coach's complaining; and some of them are even spelled out in the rule book.

It's spelled with one letter, for those who are curious.

Padgett, I said one "letter," not one "finger."