Number change in book...

[devdog69]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

The only requirement is that the scorer be provided with this information by the time that 10:00 shows on the clock. This way, the visiting team is not penalized if the home coach is taking a long time to fill in his half of the official book and finishes at 10:01 to go.

Our clocks count down out here in the sticks. 10:01 would be before 10:00. Mark D, you also said in #4 above "remind the visitor book that they are an official too" and that the visiting scorer has as much right to get the officials attention as the home team. You are going to have to prove that to me. I have an official timer and an official scorer, not a home scorer and a vistiing scorer. Whatever my official scorer says and is in their book is the only account of the game. If there is a question that the visiting scorer raises I will ask the official book, if they disagree the official scorebook stands.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by w_sohl
It is my understanding that the information MUST be entered into the OFFICIAL SCOREBOOK before the ten minuet mark or a technical is assesed.

Now, we're talking about two different rules.

10-1-1
Fail to supply the scorer with the name and number of each team member who may participate and designate the five starting players at least 10 minutes before the scheduled starting time.

This is what you're talking about, sohl. We're talking about 10-1-2c.

10-1-2
After the time limit specified in Article 1:
a. Change a designated starter unless necessitated as in 3-2-2a.
b. Add a name to the team member list.
c. Require the scorer to change a team member's or player's number in the scorebook.
d. Require a player to change to the number in the scorebook.
e. Have identical numbers on team members and/or players.

After the 10 minute mark, you can only have one technical foul under 10-1-2 for the remainder of the game.

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
In reply to the second question jrut posed - is it a T because scorer changed it themselves, or only if coach notified them to change it? In reality, neither. It is a T when player reports with wrong number, as long as ref knows it.

That's not true either, Coach. It's a T when the change is made in the book, if the official is notified properly. The player doesn't even have to report. If the coach came to the table and said, "We need to make a change in the book. Jane is #11, not #10." The scoroer notifies the official prior to making the change. Now we have a T.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by devdog69
Our clocks count down out here in the sticks. 10:01 would be before 10:00.

That was the point. If home coach is done with the book at 10:01 left, there would be no way for the visiting coach to get everything entered before the 10-minute "T" mark.

Mark D, you also said in #4 above "remind the visitor book that they are an official too" and that the visiting scorer has as much right to get the officials attention as the home team. You are going to have to prove that to me.

2-1-1: "The officials shall be a referee and an umpire . . . who shall be assisted by two timers and two scorers."

2-11: The scorers (note the plural form here) shall . . .

I have an official timer and an official scorer, not a home scorer and a vistiing scorer. Whatever my official scorer says and is in their book is the only account of the game. If there is a question that the visiting scorer raises I will ask the official book, if they disagree the official scorebook stands.

I agree - if they disagree, you have to go with the official book. However, the visiting scorer is allowed to, and should, call things to the officials' attention.

[devdog69]

2-1-1 also says "A single timer and a single scorer may be used if they are trained personnel acceptable to the referee."

This is most often the case in high school games, but I agree in the lower levels having two could be beneficial. I would want the visiting book at the table with the other scorers and timers if I was going to consider it an official part of the game.

[zebraman]

Pregame Comments to official scorer and visiting scorer which can be helpful:

"You can sit by each other if you like - that makes it easy to stay in sync. If there are any problems, the official (NOTE: Not the visiting scorer!) scorer can get our attention at the first dead ball. Good communication between the two of you would be very helpful. If there are discrepancies, this (pointing to official scorer book) will be what we go by unless the refs have definite knowlege of an error."

Z

[JoeT]

Originally posted by JRutledge

Incorrect. The rule says nothing about being entered. It says that the names and numbers must be summited or designate the starters. It says nothing about having to be written in at all. So in really you could have the names on a piece of paper given to the scorer. Rule 3-2-1.

As a coach, I keep a number of "starter sheets" in my game folder. Each has the players, positions (in case there is an announcer), and numbers. There are blanks at the top to indicate the game and date, and there is a column of checkboxes to indicate which players are starters. I have have that day's sheet already filled out, and I set it on the scorer's table when my team enters the gym to warm up. According to my read of the rules (and JRutledge's), this is perfectly legal. If the scorer prefers, I will write the names into the official book as well, but this way I have always provided them in the proper time frame.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by JoeT
As a coach, I keep a number of "starter sheets" in my game folder. Each has the players, positions (in case there is an announcer), and numbers. There are blanks at the top to indicate the game and date, and there is a column of checkboxes to indicate which players are starters. I have have that day's sheet already filled out, and I set it on the scorer's table when my team enters the gym to warm up. According to my read of the rules (and JRutledge's), this is perfectly legal. If the scorer prefers, I will write the names into the official book as well, but this way I have always provided them in the proper time frame.

Coach; thank you!

Now why couldn't you be at one of my games?