Would you "T"

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by IREFU2

Nope as long as he didnt drop the "F" Bomb or was cursing.....he can screem all he wants to his team.

Part of the story was "Coach called time out and chewed his team out using profanity".

[IREFU2]

Darn, I am still sipping on coffee......eyes stiff foggy. If he dropped the F bomb, I would stick him. But, if the curse words were like the common ones used, I would talk to him about his choise of words. Thanks for that Scrapper1!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by IREFU2

If he dropped the F bomb, I would stick him. But, if the curse words were like the common ones used, I would talk to him about his choise of words.

What makes some profanity OK but other profanity wrong?

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

What makes some profanity OK but other profanity wrong?

I didnt say profanity was okay. Just the F bomb would get my attention!!!

[lrpalmer3]

This is a tough issue. Part of the problem is that you have people (including myself) that will not enforce the rule as written, and then people that enforce the rule to the letter of the law. Consistency is lost.

In my mind, every coach gets one tirade. Someone on our crew then lets him know that we can't allow that to happen again. If he does it again, T. But that's only if we're not coming down the stretch in a close game. In that case, it goes uncalled again, and again, and again. Just being truthful here.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by lrpalmer3

This is a tough issue. Part of the problem is that you have people (including myself) that will not enforce the rule as written, and then people that enforce the rule to the letter of the law. Consistency is lost.

I think one of the biggest problem is we are too concerned with consistency from one night to another. It is easy for the NBA as an example to have all the consistency when they only have 50 or so officials to work with (I do not know the actual staff number so do not sue me). When you are dealing with thousands like in my state, all I can do is do what I feel is right. Coaches know that some officials are going to have a stick up their behind about certain rules and other officials will just turn the other cheek. We worry too much about what some guy you have never met did as opposed to just doing what your training and your experience has told you to do.

Peace

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by lrpalmer3

In my mind, every coach gets one tirade. Someone on our crew then lets him know that we can't allow that to happen again. If he does it again, T. But that's only if we're not coming down the stretch in a close game. In that case, it goes uncalled again, and again, and again. Just being truthful here.

Surely you jest (and yes, I called you Shirley). You mean that if a coach stands there and screams obscenities at you at the top of his lungs, you'd give him only a warning if this is the first time he does it? And then you'd let him do it again and again without a T if the game is close at the end???!!!!

Either I'm reading your post incorrectly or else you are joking - I hope! At first, I thought you were joking when I saw the smiley face, but then you ended your post with a statement that you were being truthful, which (I think) negates the smiley.

[lrpalmer3]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Surely you jest (and yes, I called you Shirley). You mean that if a coach stands there and screams obscenities at you at the top of his lungs, you'd give him only a warning if this is the first time he does it? And then you'd let him do it again and again without a T if the game is close at the end???!!!!

Either I'm reading your post incorrectly or else you are joking - I hope! At first, I thought you were joking when I saw the smiley face, but then you ended your post with a statement that you were being truthful, which (I think) negates the smiley.

Tirade to his own team. I thought that's what we've been talking about, but I should have been more clear.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by IREFU2

Darn, I am still sipping on coffee......eyes stiff foggy.

I can tell from here!! LOL.

[refprof]

Unsportsmanlike behavior is unacceptable. This happened to me once, and I have always regreted not awarding a "T"
A wise old man once instructed me, "Victory without honor is no victory." His name was Hashim Kahn.

[deecee]

player takes a shot and misses and at the top of his lungs yells "F__k"

clearly its not aimed at the official, and I will be hard pressed to find anyone here that would not T this up.

so why when the coach is dropping bombs that poor 90 year old Mary who came to watch her great grandson play ball and is hard of hearing can hear him would you not want to punish him. Besides from personal experience a coach who acts like this wont treat you with much respect either.

JRut -- the T will accomplish one thing, and it only really needs to accomplish one thing, and that is let the coach know that behavior is unacceptable in your game. Wheter he does it again is out of your control.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by deecee

JRut -- the T will accomplish one thing, and it only really needs to accomplish one thing, and that is let the coach know that behavior is unacceptable in your game. Wheter he does it again is out of your control.

Here the problem I have with your position. The OP did not use any particular word or words as an example. Profanity is very often subjective. There are certain words that would be considered profane in one circle and in others would be considered acceptable. Now if the NF wants to pick out certain words then I will have a bigger leg to stand on. But let us not act like we penalize every bad word we hear. I very rarely ever worked a game where an official other than me penalized a kid or coach the very first time they heard a profane word. I would do like I usually do give them a chance to know what is acceptable then give a T if necessary. To me going in a huddle to give a T based on what is said within a team huddle is looking for trouble. You can quote all the NF positions and say why we should follow the NF interpretation as you read it, but I do not work for the NF. I work for the assignors that give me games. I am not going to go into a he said, he said type of situation to enforce a rule that is vague at best.

Just like always I am telling you what I am going to do. What you do is up to you. I just have almost never heard clearly anything said in a team huddle if I am standing on the block or talking with my partners.

Peace

[Philz]

I' don't remeber word for word what he said but it went something like this. You guys are playing like sh*t....If you dont feel like playing pack your sh*t and take your asses home. He went on for a while longer mostly using the "sh" word but no "F" bombs for sure. This guy was big with a big voice to go with it and as I mentioned was sooooooooooo loud you had to be 100% deaf not to hear it in the gym.
Someone mentioned I was another guy affaid to give a "T" but let me tell you I gave a "T" to that guy later that I'm proud of. I was trail and there was some contact down below with his team in possesion. No call and the other team taking over on a fast break the other way. He chased me down the floor yelling at me with that big loud voice "you blew the call" "you blew the call" I held my whistel until the other team finished the fast break in which they made a layup and I got a foul on his team also and I really enjoyed calling the foul, bucket good and then a Tech. on the coach. Coach saids, Oh now you call the Tech? yeah coach, had to let the play finish first. So I dont like hearing that BS another one affaid to call a "T". It was a situation that doesnt happen that often as I can see from the replies only one said it happen to him so before you start point fingers at whos affaid to call a "T" try to put yourself in the situation before you reply with that type of comment. I like to hear what other officials (with a lot more experience) have to say and learn from it. Thats why I like this forum.

[JRutledge]

I also love how people want to point out rule 10-4-1c or 10-3-7b but forget to worry about 10-4-1b, which happens about every time we make a call or we have a situation that a coach does not like. But we must at all costs T up every coach if we hear profanity in a huddle which we are not being addressed or talked to. Well, in this day and age if a coach is using profanity, they tend to tell on the coach. They tend to get coaches in trouble for behavior that is not easily heard by anyone.

There was a coach in my area that put on a bulletin board in the locker room a sign that said, "Hard work will set you free." Now to the average person this might not in any way be offensive, but the school this took place was a largely Jewish community. I guess the Nazis put signs up like this in the concentration camps in the 30s and 40s and this has a very offensive reaction from those in the Jewish community. As an African-American I have no idea this was something seen as a problem, but the coach was suspended for a game and was put in some other kind of trouble with the school he worked for. Remember, the rule we are discussing also talks about inappropriate language and this from my background would not even raise an eyebrow because I had no knowledge of the context of such comments. So how far are we going to take what we hear in the huddle? I agree that is should be addressed, but giving a T for a first time offense is a stretch in my mind.

Peace

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

To me going in a huddle to give a T based on what is said within a team huddle is looking for trouble.
Peace

I'll agree to that. However, if I can hear it, it's not in the huddle anymore.