How late is too late??

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

If the contact makes a player lose the ball, there is nowayinhell that could ever be called "incidental" contact. Incidental contact means that the contact doesn't give one player an advantage over another.

If you tap a player on the shoulder is it a foul? How about if you tap a player on the shoulder and he looks up and dribbles the ball off his foot? The tap on the shoulder doesn't cause him to lose the ball. The player's inability to dribble when not playing close attention to what he's doing causes him to lose the ball.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

How about if you tap a player on the shoulder and he looks up and dribbles the ball off his foot?

Ok, interesting question. Here's what Jurassic said in the post you quoted:

If the contact makes a player lose the ball, there is nowayinhell that could ever be called "incidental" contact.

You then comment:

The tap on the shoulder doesn't cause him to lose the ball.

I think you just answered your own question!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

1) If you tap a player on the shoulder is it a foul?

2) How about if you tap a player on the shoulder and he looks up and dribbles the ball off his foot?

3) The tap on the shoulder doesn't cause him to lose the ball. The player's inability to dribble when not playing close attention to what he's doing causes him to lose the ball.

1) If the tap gives the other team an illegal advantage by making the player lose the ball, then it sureasheck is a foul. Every time.

2) Yes, that's a foul. The tap created a definite disadvantage for the offensive player. He lost control of his dribble because of the contact.

3) Disagree. Diverting the player's attention through illegal contact caused the player to lose the ball. The defender gained an illegal advantage through that act. That's why it's a foul.

Methinks you really need to get someone to explain advantage/disadvantage to you. You don't seem to understand the concept. The degree of the contact isn't the deciding factor. The result of the contact is.

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Methinks you really need to get someone to explain advantage/disadvantage to you. You don't seem to understand the concept. The degree of the contact isn't the deciding factor. The result of the contact is.

I understand the concept of advantage/disadvantage. However, I also understand that incidental contact can cause a disadvantage. Incidental contact is not a foul. However, according to your interpretation, incidental contact that causes a disadvantage is not incidental contact. This is pure Newspeak.

Advantage/disadvantage should be used to determine if a foul has occured if there is any question in your mind. It should not be the sole determining factor. For example, displacement should always be called a foul, regardless of whether you judge that an advantage has been gained. Conversely, placing a hand on a player always gives an advantage, since the player can be tracked without looking. Is this a foul? Now we're getting into "How much of an advantage is gained?" In a sense, the mantra of "read the rulebook" becomes meaningless because the game becomes one not of rules, but of opinions. This makes it impossible to get a level playing field, since everyone has differing opinons.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

I also understand that incidental contact can cause a disadvantage.

By definition, I think this is false.

I also disagree with most of the rest of that post. I do think that "advantage / disadvantage" is often an over-used excuse for not calling a foul.

[Camron Rust]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimgolf
I also understand that incidental contact can cause a disadvantage.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

By definition, I think this is false.

I disagree with you on this on Bob. I can imagine several forms of legal contact that cause a disadvantage....

• Contact on the hand in an attempt to play the ball.
• Two players coming from equally advantageous positions in an attempt to get to a loose ball and one of them is bigger than the other and the collission at the ball knocks the smaller on down.
• A player sets a legal screen, the defender runs into it. The contact is incidental but legally puts the defender at a disadvantage.

[lrpalmer3]

People complain about a late call until the ball gets put in play again.

People complain about an obvious missed call until the next game starts three days later.