How late is too late??

[rainmaker]

Too late is too late. It's a tough call, and no doubt about it. I'd say in your situation, once the dribbler had turned, it was too late.

The trick to getting this call right is A1's "ability to play through". Sounds like there was the ability there, and B2 just took advantage of a "fumble". Whether or not to have called the bump originally would probably depend on the level of play, and the overall style of the game, and what else was being called. You probably got it right by not calling it.

[rainmaker]

I finished my response, and then read Rusty's. Funny that they're the exact opposite!! It just shows that there's lots and lots of judgment involved, and each situation is different. If I were you, I'd keep watching other refs games, and keep adding to your data bank. See how others call this amount of contact at the same level, in similar situations. Work on developing the instincts that might give you an automatic response that you can feel good about.

[Rusty Gilbert]

ditto rainmaker's last post.....

[sj]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

You probably got it right by not calling it.

****I like your attitude. : > ) Although in hindsight I should have called it. I was going to get grief from one coach or the other so that was a wash but the steal surprised me as I didn't see him coming in to steal the ball. As I ran past Coach A he asked,...wasn't he bumped? I was busy running down with the layup but by the time I came back past him I realized what had happened and told him that I should have called it. But you live and learn.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by sj

I was busy running down with the layup but by the time I came back past him I realized what had happened and told him that I should have called it. But you live and learn.

You answered your own question.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You answered your own question.

Ok, so should he have blown his whistle at that time and called the foul?

And, should the resulting layup count, or should he wipe that off?

I think the question isn't whether or not it was a foul, but once he realizes it should've been called a foul, how long can you wait before calling it?

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Ok, so should he have blown his whistle at that time and called the foul?

And, should the resulting layup count, or should he wipe that off?

I think the question isn't whether or not it was a foul, but once he realizes it should've been called a foul, how long can you wait before calling it?

Before the player that stole the ball gets more than two dribbles away.

I dunno...it's going to look ugly either way. He was late on a foul call...does he want to compound the problem by letting the opposing team benefit TWICE because of the original non-call?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Ok, so should he have blown his whistle at that time and called the foul?

And, should the resulting layup count, or should he wipe that off?

I think the question isn't whether or not it was a foul, but once he realizes it should've been called a foul, how long can you wait before calling it?

I didn't see the play; he did. If, after thinking about it, he thinks that he should have called a foul, then he should have called it. From his original description, it sureasheck sounds like a foul should have been called. If the dribbler gets bumped off his path and also turned around at the same time, that is not incidental contact.

If the subsequent steal was fairly close to the original contact, you can come in with a late whistle and explain it away fairly easily. If the player hasn't recovered his balance yet from the bump, as he said in the op, then it certainly ain't too late. Call it as soon as the ball is stolen.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I didn't see the play; he did. If, after thinking about it, he thinks that he should have called a foul, then he should have called it. From his original description, it sureasheck sounds like a foul should have been called. If the dribbler gets bumped off his path and also turned around at the same time, that is not incidental contact.

If the subsequent steal was fairly close to the original contact, you can come in with a late whistle and explain it away fairly easily. If the player hasn't recovered his balance yet from the bump, as he said in the op, then it certainly ain't too late. Call it as soon as the ball is stolen.

I agree; I was just trying to be a little bit of a smart-a$$.

I know I've had that brain-locked condition where you see the play, and think to yourself, "Someone should call something"; then you realize you're the one that should be calling something. So how much time should elapse before you just say, ok, now it's too late? I agree as soon as the ball is stolen is still ok. I also agree once the ball is stolen and the other team lays it in, that's too late. Does anyone have any "rule of thumb" as to when is it really too late to come in with a foul call? 2 steps? 2 seconds?

[refin1]

speed, rhythm and control. If any of those three are interupted, it's a foul

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Does anyone have any "rule of thumb" as to when is it really too late to come in with a foul call? 2 steps? 2 seconds?

Like pornography or pictures of Chuck, I think you know it when you see it.

Being "too late" is, IMO, dependent on the game so far - what level is the play, how fast are the players, etc.