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Old Wed Jun 06, 2007, 10:25am
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Coast to Coast Referee School

I noticed that Ron Garretson and Joe DeRosa put this camp on.

Has anyone ever been? Is it more of an Identification Camp (NCAA D1) or is this more of a learning camp?
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Old Wed Jun 06, 2007, 10:49am
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It is a teaching camp, I went back in 2005 and they teach you some good philosophy but if your going looking to get hired you will be disappointed.
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Old Wed Jun 06, 2007, 12:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LouisianaDave
It is a teaching camp, I went back in 2005 and they teach you some good philosophy but if your going looking to get hired you will be disappointed.
Dave not to be mean but if you said to an NBA referee that they teach good "philosophies", 99% of them would rip you a new one. The NBA referees ref according to performance standards and guidelines, they don't have "philosophies". There's no "he got hit and it didn't put him at a disadvantage, so I didn't blow" BS. If he got hit or bumped, then he got hit or bumped, hence you blow the whistle. If it's marginal or inconclusive then you leave it alone. They referee RSBQ (Rhythm, Speed, Balance, Quickness) on drives to the basket. It is part of their guidelines, it is NOT a philosophy. There is rarely any judgement calls having to be made when it comes to hands in the post game. If you have 2 hands, 2 forearms or a locked arm it is automatic. It's a straight forward guideline to referee with.

As far as the camp goes. There is only one open now and it is the one in Orlando. there will be about 13 NBA refs teaching there. If you have the funds, I would suggest going. If you want to be the best you have to learn from the best and the best will be there teaching. There will be some assignors there because of friendships with the Clinicians, but it is mainly an NBA exposure camp.

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Old Wed Jun 06, 2007, 02:33pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btaylor64
The NBA referees ref according to performance standards and guidelines, they don't have "philosophies".
But their guidelines are obviously the result of a particular philosophy that is different from the overall philosophy at the high school or college level.

Quote:
There's no "he got hit and it didn't put him at a disadvantage, so I didn't blow" BS.
No, but there is "marginal contact" BS. It's stated differently, but it's the same thing -- judgment.
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Old Wed Jun 06, 2007, 03:09pm
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Originally Posted by Scrapper1
But their guidelines are obviously the result of a particular philosophy that is different from the overall philosophy at the high school or college level.

No, but there is "marginal contact" BS. It's stated differently, but it's the same thing -- judgment.
Using the word philosophy means that there are many different ones, and that people can use different ones. In the pro game, it is a guideline, meaning that this is how it will be called, and if you don't call it like this you didn't get the play right. Philosophies are vague and there are too many floating around and that causes more inconsistencies in the game.

The guidelines are not under a philosophy. The committee who was working with the rules thought that this would make for better basketball, so they instituted these RULES or guidelines. When you have to call something that is stated in the rules that doesn't involve judgement, that is not a philosophy. Philosophies can make things a "should I or should I not" such as the TOWER PHILOSOPHY. When you have to start doing that alot, in takes your play calling skills down and you will get more plays wrong by doing so.
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Old Wed Jun 06, 2007, 05:03pm
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Originally Posted by btaylor64
In the pro game, it is a guideline, meaning that this is how it will be called, and if you don't call it like this you didn't get the play right.
Any relationship between the pro whack, hack, hold, travel and knock people into the 3rd row crap and real basketball is purely coincidental. The NBA officiating guidelines are set for entertainment reasons only. I've been officiating basketball for one helluva long time, and I can't tell you what a foul IS in the NBA. Anybody who can try to say that contact is called consistently in the NBA is simply full of doodoo imo. They might actually have some guidelines but I've never been able to figure them out. They're consistently inconsistent imo. And as for rules like traveling or palming, I'd like to know what the NBA guidelines for those are. They sureashell don't call them by their own rules.

The NBA.....unwatchable, except by the people who also think Pro Wrasslin' is real.

There might be dumber things that an official could do than try to use pro philosophies in the high school or college game, but I can't think of any off-hand.
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Old Wed Jun 06, 2007, 05:13pm
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Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
There might be dumber things that an official could do than try to use pro philosophies in the high school or college game, but I can't think of any off-hand.
You could use Old School's patented philosophies. If not worse, it would at least have to be pretty damn close.
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Old Thu Jun 07, 2007, 01:27pm
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Originally Posted by LouisianaDave
It is a teaching camp, I went back in 2005 and they teach you some good philosophy but if your going looking to get hired you will be disappointed.

Uh......Joe assigns several JUCO and NAIA leagues in the Ohio area. So guys in the midwest could possibly benefit.

Whats the saying....you never know who is watching?
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Old Thu Jun 07, 2007, 03:00pm
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Originally Posted by KingTripleJump
I noticed that Ron Garretson and Joe DeRosa put this camp on.

Has anyone ever been? Is it more of an Identification Camp (NCAA D1) or is this more of a learning camp?
I would say it's more of an NBA camp. Geared towrds the NBA game, which could really screw you up if your aspirations are not to be an NBA official. The NBA is so different then NCAA and HS that they want you doing this and nothing else. You start trying to do both and it will really mess you up, imho. A great camp to go to if you can afford it, but no what it is geared towards. I don't think they will be stressing a lot of NCAA stuff there. If you are really good and they decide to bring you in. You are off the NCAA path, permantly.
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Old Thu Jun 07, 2007, 03:26pm
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Originally Posted by Old School
I would say it's more of an NBA camp. Geared towrds the NBA game, which could really screw you up if your aspirations are not to be an NBA official. The NBA is so different then NCAA and HS that they want you doing this and nothing else. You start trying to do both and it will really mess you up, imho. A great camp to go to if you can afford it, but no what it is geared towards. I don't think they will be stressing a lot of NCAA stuff there. If you are really good and they decide to bring you in. You are off the NCAA path, permantly.
That's not true at all about working pro and college. You can do both and many do. For example, Brian Forte, son of NBA ref Joe Forte, refs in the SEC and refereed the finals in The NBA D-League Playoffs. That is just one of many who do that. Don't think that will be the case at Coast to Coast. Yes you will do NBA switches and if you choose to you can work without a lanyard and report with 2 hands, but those things don't mean anything compared to the quality instruction that you will get there. Cause at the end of the day those guys want you to do one thing and that is get plays right. Period.
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Old Thu Jun 07, 2007, 03:28pm
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Originally Posted by btaylor64
Cause at the end of the day those guys want you to do one thing and that is get plays right. Period.
And that is different from any other camp in the world....how?
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Old Thu Jun 07, 2007, 03:39pm
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Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
And that is different from any other camp in the world....how?
Haven't you been to the OSHA Camp? There they want you to hold the safety of the players above getting the call right.

It's true...it's true...
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Old Thu Jun 07, 2007, 03:45pm
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Originally Posted by M&M Guy
Haven't you been to the OSHA Camp? There they want you to hold the safety of the players above getting the call right.

It's true...it's true...
I stand corrected.......
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 08, 2007, 12:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btaylor64
That's not true at all about working pro and college. You can do both and many do. For example, Brian Forte, son of NBA ref Joe Forte, refs in the SEC and refereed the finals in The NBA D-League Playoffs. That is just one of many who do that. Don't think that will be the case at Coast to Coast. Yes you will do NBA switches and if you choose to you can work without a lanyard and report with 2 hands, but those things don't mean anything compared to the quality instruction that you will get there. Cause at the end of the day those guys want you to do one thing and that is get plays right. Period.
I disagree. I don't think there's many out there that's doing NBA ball that is doubling back working upper level college men's basketball. College assigners don't particularly care about some of the philosophy's of the NBA teachings. It can also get you in trouble mechanic wise and those guys trying out for college that have NBA mechanics, stands out like a sore thumb in camps. I will agree the camp focuses on getting plays right, but that's NBA right and there's a big difference between NBA right and NCAA right. Bottom line, if you have aspirations to be an NCAA Men's official, stay the hell away from an NBA camp. That is not money well spent, imho.
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Old Fri Jun 08, 2007, 12:24pm
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Originally Posted by Old School
I disagree. I don't think there's many out there that's doing NBA ball that is doubling back working upper level college men's basketball. College assigners don't particularly care about some of the philosophy's of the NBA teachings. It can also get you in trouble mechanic wise and those guys trying out for college that have NBA mechanics, stands out like a sore thumb in camps. I will agree the camp focuses on getting plays right, but that's NBA right and there's a big difference between NBA right and NCAA right. Bottom line, if you have aspirations to be an NCAA Men's official, stay the hell away from an NBA camp. That is not money well spent, imho.
Learn the difference between "NBA" and "NBDL."
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