The Official Forum - A few situations/questions

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- - A few situations/questions (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/35386-few-situations-questions.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

The problem is that 5-2-1 makes it irrelevant whether or not the thrown ball is a try.

Yea, what he said. :D

I respectfully disagree with M&M and Scrapper. It does not seem as if you will be swayed in your opinion. That is up to you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ref in PA

I respectfully disagree with M&M and Scrapper. It does not seem as if you will be swayed in your opinion. That is up to you.

Actually you disagree with me as well.

What I want to know is when did Scrapple get voted into the clique? Our constitution requires 3 recommendations and a 2/3 majority vote. I'm going to file a grievance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

I'm in the clique?!?

You guys like me! You really like me!

(I'm not sure I like the idea of a Ranger's fan being part of our clique. Make sure I get a copy of that ballot.)

Not so fast Norma Rae. :D

Peace

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

1) Actually you disagree with me as well.

2) What I want to know is when did Scrapple get voted into the clique? Our constitution requires 3 recommendations and a 2/3 majority vote. I'm going to file a grievance.

1) Me too fwiw.

2) Also fwiw, screw Skippy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Not so fast Norma Rae. :D

Peace

Aw, don't ruin my self-induced moment of acceptance...

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Not so fast Norma Rae. :D

Peace

We should let him stay because he always brings the beer without complaining...keep it to yourself...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

What the hell's a 2/3 majority vote? :confused:

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

I'm in the clique?!?

Enjoy it - I apparently was left out. :(

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

What the hell's a 2/3 majority vote? :confused:

It's just another way of saying a 2/3 vote by the membership. But you knew this and are just going out of your way to be annoying. Now you know why you could never muster the required approval.

:rolleyes:

:p

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Now you know why you could never muster the required approval.

Well, there also is that Boston Red Sox thingy too........

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

It's just another way of saying a 2/3 vote by the membership. But you knew this and are just going out of your way to be annoying.

Now why would I do a dexter-hole thing like that? :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Ref in PA - I understand what you are saying, but 4-41-2 has to do specifically with the definition of a try: "A player is trying for goal when the player has the ball and in the official's judgment is throwing or attempting to throw for goal."

5-2-1 is taking away the judgement of whether or not the player is actually attempting a try in determining whether to award 2 points or 3. If the player is behind the arc when the ball is thrown, the official does not have to determine it is a "try" in order to award 3 points. The obvious example is the alley-oop, where A1 is outside the arc and passing it to A2 for the dunk, A2 misses it, and the ball goes through the basket. It's still 3 points, even though it wasn't a "try".

1. The rules need to be cleaned up, we have countless examples of poorly written rules.

2. Yes, it isn't specifically laid out.

3. But it is clear that there isn't supposed to be a judgment between a try and a throw, so logically, a throw should end the same way a try does.

4. Logic also says that the defensive touch is talking about a defender attempting to block the try/throw immediately not touching it 15 feet away.

5. Common sense tells you that the rules intent isn't to count 3 on a pass from outside the arc, away from the basket that strikes a defender and goes in the basket.

6. Taking common sense, logical progression and the fact we have a case play in place that says we can count it as a 2, why would anyone hold onto 5-2-1 and rule a 3? :confused:

Quote:

Originally Posted by blindzebra

1. The rules need to be cleaned up, we have countless examples of poorly written rules. Agreed.

2. Yes, it isn't specifically laid out. Agreed.

3. But it is clear that there isn't supposed to be a judgment between a try and a throw, Agreed so logically, a throw should end the same way a try does. This is where I agree in principle, but there is nothing in the rules that support that. This is where you are making an assumption (albeit a logical one) and reading into the rules something that isn't specified.

4. Logic also says that the defensive touch is talking about a defender attempting to block the try/throw immediately not touching it 15 feet away. Again, you are making an assumption that is not specified in the rules. It does specify the defender is inside the arc; that's it.

5. Common sense tells you that the rules intent isn't to count 3 on a pass from outside the arc, away from the basket that strikes a defender and goes in the basket. So, does that mean you would not count the alley-oop pass that goes off the defender and into the basket as a 3, but only a 2?

6. Taking common sense, logical progression and the fact we have a case play in place that says we can count it as a 2, The case play you are referring to specifically say "try". We all agree the OP was not a try. why would anyone hold onto 5-2-1 and rule a 3? Because it was not a try.

Again, my point is you are reading into the wording of the rule and case play; I am taking it as written.

Why is it no one wants to answer my question: if a try and a throw are considered the same thing, if A1 is fouled behind the arc in the act of throwing the ball, should A1 be awarded 3 FT's?