Lottery Justice

[DC_Ref12]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

Jordan is a wing. There are great wing players every year. You pays your nickel, you takes your choice.

Funny. That's probably what Portland said that year as well.

[JRutledge]

Durant is no different than a Kevin Garnett or Tracy McGrady and how many titles do these guys have? KG and McGrady have a hard time making the playoffs or getting past the 1st round.

Oden is going to be a great player or a player that will influence his team a lot more because he is dedicated to playing around the basket on both ends. Not to say Durant will not be a similar player. Durant averaged more blocks than Oden did during this past season. So it is possible that Durant will be one of the all time greats. Durant is a swing player and is more likely to be a shooter and a slashers. Oden's style of can benefit a team without being a dominate scorer. If Ben Wallace could score a little bit, the Bulls would have beat the Pistons. You can always find slashers with decent shooting ability. You cannot find true center players that actually want to be around the basket on both ends of the floor.

Peace

[DC_Ref12]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Durant is no different than a Kevin Garnett or Tracy McGrady and how many titles do these guys have? KG and McGrady have a hard time making the playoffs or getting past the 1st round.

Peace

Yes, but how much of this is due to individual ability and how much is due to the organizations they belong to?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by DC_Ref12

Yes, but how much of this is due to individual ability and how much is due to the organizations they belong to?

I will say it this way. Tracy McGrady has been on several teams and he cannot lift his team to the next level. The Bulls were terrible when Jordan got there but he lifted that team to a contender and shined even when he was out matched by a better team. KG can hardly make the playoffs each year. KG has had many players around him that should help the team and for some reason it just never happens. Great players should at least lift their teams into the playoffs and the second round.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Durant is no different than a Kevin Garnett or Tracy McGrady and how many titles do these guys have? KG and McGrady have a hard time making the playoffs or getting past the 1st round.

How many titles did the player produce? Is that your standard?

That's not a good argument for drafting Oden, the big guy who plays center, instead of the talented forward, Durant.

Why? Let me point out a big man named Patrick Ewing. Tremendous college player, excellent pro player, ZERO NBA titles.

BTW a parallel between Oden and Ewing is that both took their teams to the NCAA title game as freshman and lost.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

How many titles did the player produce? Is that your standard?

That's not a good argument for drafting Oden, the big guy who plays center, instead of the talented forward, Durant.

First of all I do not know that it is a "standard." I do know that when you draft players missing the playoffs all together cannot be the goal. And yes if they draft Oden over Durant or Durant over Oden, I would hope that trying to win a title is part of their objective. If it is not, then someone will not have a job. You do not need a high draft pick to not make the playoffs.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Why? Let me point out a big man named Patrick Ewing. Tremendous college player, excellent pro player, ZERO NBA titles.

BTW a parallel between Oden and Ewing is that both took their teams to the NCAA title game as freshman and lost.

Once again I think you have a hard time understanding some basic concepts. The success of a player is not just titles, but at the very least getting a chance to win a title. Patrick Ewing was close many times to winning a title and even made the finals. If it was not for John Starks and his drought in Game 7, Ewing just might have won a title. McGrady has never gotten past the first round of the playoffs and KG has went years of not making the playoffs at all and has also struggled in the post season. There was even a time when KG could not get past the first round either but did get to the Western Conference finals and the following year miss the post season all together. I believe that Oden will likely change the dynamic of that team to the point they might be competing for a title if he stays healthy. Durant needs a point guard and likely another big man to even compete on a consistent basis. Oden will make a point guard better and will make other players around him because they will have a stop defender around the basket. Of course time will tell but I usually having a big man that is productive is more likely to make an average team into a Champion. Even the Bulls did not have a dominate center but they had one of the all time best clutch players on that team. Durant would have some big shoes to fill to do that on his own. So far KG and McGrady have not even come close and they play much more like Durant than Oden does. Remember who won the title last year? Oden may not be a dominate scorer like Shaq, but he is closer to having an affect on his team than Durant will based on what we have seen so far. Also remember who was in the NCAA Finals this year.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Once again I think you have a hard time understanding some basic concepts.

No, that is you. You list two forwards who have never won the NBA title and conclude that therefore the center is the better draft choice because he is more likely to produce a championship for his team. However, when I name a center who is considered one of the all-time best, but never got a ring, you fail to see how that refutes your logic.

(Instead you meekly state that Ewing came close. Well so did Stockton and Malone.)

So obviously further examples are necessary.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

1. Remember who won the [NBA]title last year? ...
2. Also remember who was in the NCAA Finals this year.

For every example you can name, a counterexample can be cited. That means that your entire premise is faulty.

1. Remember who was eliminated in the first round this year?

2. Also remember who WON the NCAA Finals this year.

Incidently, Ewing's freshman year the Hoyas lost the title game to a team led by James Worthy. What position did he play? How many NBA titles did he go on to win?

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Why? Let me point out a big man named Patrick Ewing. Tremendous college player, excellent pro player, ZERO NBA titles.

BTW a parallel between Oden and Ewing is that both took their teams to the NCAA title game as freshman and lost.

Ewing wanted to be Kevin Durant instead of being Bill Russell. He was in love with his jump shot and sometimes reluctant to go to the hole. Nevertheless the Knicks were a Charles Smith layup and a John Starks jump shot from two titles.

Clyde Drexler was not as good as Jordan, but the question is whether Drexler and Jordan would have been as good as Drexler and Bowie. At the time it wasn't all that clear, although I was not a big Bowie fan. I always think if a center is that good, they should be dominant. I never saw Bowie as dominant. I thought he was another Mychal Thompson or Kent Benson, great college players that would be journeyman pros.

Then again, no one knew Jordan would be that good. If he didn't come back from his injury his second year and Bowie did, you might be arguing the other way. Jordan became dominant by hard work and adding Scottie Pippin and Phil Jackson.

Ten years from now, people may be writing how stupid they were for not taking Yi or Wright or Belinelli or Tomic.

As for saying that players like Michael Jordan only come along once in a generation, you're giving him too much credit. At the time Jordan came along you also had Wilkins, Drexler and Bird, who were also wings, as well as Pippin a few years later. If Durant proves to be as good as any of these players, I'm sure whoever drafts him will be happy.

[Junker]

I agree that the Bulls wouldn't have dominated in the 80's. What the 90's lacked was another team that had a leader with the "killer instinct" that Jordan had. What made the Lakers/Celtics rivalry was the fact that both Magic and Bird didn't just want to win, they had to win. Jordan never had to play a great player that had that intangible aspect in their prime.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Junker

I agree that the Bulls wouldn't have dominated in the 80's. What the 90's lacked was another team that had a leader with the "killer instinct" that Jordan had. What made the Lakers/Celtics rivalry was the fact that both Magic and Bird didn't just want to win, they had to win. Jordan never had to play a great player that had that intangible aspect in their prime.

I disagree. Shaq, Charles Barkely, Akin Olajuwon, David Robinson, Tim Duncun, Karl Malone, James Worthly, and even Alan Iverson to name a few. Let's not forget the star status Jordan acheived which benefited him a lot of calls in his favor, especially in his later championships. Utah was a call or two away from winning at least one of those series. I think Jordan got a way with a few but he still earned most of them.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by Old School

I disagree. Shaq, Charles Barkely, Akin Olajuwon, David Robinson, Tim Duncun, Karl Malone, James Worthly, and even Alan Iverson to name a few. Let's not forget the star status Jordan acheived which benefited him a lot of calls in his favor, especially in his later championships. Utah was a call or two away from winning at least one of those series. I think Jordan got a way with a few but he still earned most of them.

What!!!!!!!!!!!
Whatever.

Durant might make everyone wrong. I would take the most talented player with the most upside and that is Durant. I think people forget the fact that Ohio State had a very good team last season and a great team without Oden. I dont see him as a dominant big man. I think he can change shots, but that is about it. Portland has Randolph and his contract might be hard to trade.