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-   Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)
-   -   Legal Guarding Position (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/34135-legal-guarding-position.html)

Jurassic Referee Wed May 02, 2007 07:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mick
Ah, but if the kid fell down on Count-1, with his head within 5' of the ball handler and his feet 10'-10" away from the dribbler, I am guessing Counts-2 thru 5 could become, at least a bit, tedious. :)
:D <i></i>

JRutledge Wed May 02, 2007 07:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mick
No. I end my 5-count and start a 10-count.
Mick, that was really funny. :D

BTW, why would a dribbler stand there long enough to start a count at all?

Peace

CoachP Wed May 02, 2007 10:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Rule 4-23-3(a) isn't relevant or doesn't apply?
I fail to see anything (yet) in 4-23 that dismisses he has LGP within a maximum of 6 feet.

I also do not see the word "actively guarding" (yet).

The only place I see a 5 count terminated is during an interuppted dribble. (other than the 6 ft max)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick
Ah, but if the kid fell down on Count-1, with his head within 5' of the ball handler and his feet 10'-10" away from the dribbler, I am guessing Counts-2 thru 5 could become, at least a bit, tedious.
Only if B1 stays down for 4 more seconds!


The cool thing is, as was stated before, either B1 will be back on his feet, or A1 will be past him before this question would ever need to come into play.

...and it also keeps my nose in the book.

OHBBREF Thu May 03, 2007 12:09pm
when B1 gets up are you required to finish with the Standing 8 count?:D

deecee Thu May 03, 2007 06:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachP
I fail to see anything (yet) in 4-23 that dismisses he has LGP within a maximum of 6 feet.

I also do not see the word "actively guarding" (yet).

The only place I see a 5 count terminated is during an interuppted dribble. (other than the 6 ft max)


Only if B1 stays down for 4 more seconds!


The cool thing is, as was stated before, either B1 will be back on his feet, or A1 will be past him before this question would ever need to come into play.

...and it also keeps my nose in the book.
go ahead and continue your count -- it doesnt matter -- Im sure old skool will be along to agree with you which is pretty much the kiss of death

TRef21 Thu May 03, 2007 09:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
Sounds like your friend could use some new sneakers.

Where is that sneaker selling guy?
LOL! Tell him to go buy some Staburys

CoachP Fri May 04, 2007 06:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee
go ahead and continue your count -- it doesnt matter -- Im sure old skool will be along to agree with you which is pretty much the kiss of death
Well, based on what's in the rule book, tell me why should the count be terminated?

I gave my case, convince me of yours. Official to coach.

deecee Fri May 04, 2007 10:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
I'll only copy this, and only as an aid to further discussion....

NFHS rule 4-23-3(a)--"After the initial legal guarding position is obtained, the guard may have one or both feet on the playing court or be airborne, provided he/she has inbound status."

Fwiw, I agree with you btw. Other esteemed members don't.
JR has mentioned it several times -- are 1 or both feet on the ground?

where is the expectation of defense with a player on the ground?

Adam Fri May 04, 2007 10:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee
JR has mentioned it several times -- are 1 or both feet on the ground?

where is the expectation of defense with a player on the ground?
a player on the floor is quite likely to have one or both feet touching the floor. Frankly, I think a case can be made by rule to have a count continue.

deecee Fri May 04, 2007 10:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
a player on the floor is quite likely to have one or both feet touching the floor. Frankly, I think a case can be made by rule to have a count continue.
very nimble player with very flexible ankles.

Adam Fri May 04, 2007 11:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee
very nimble player with very flexible ankles.
How so? Nothing says the bottom of his feet have to be touching the floor; only that his feet have to be on the floor. Lay on the floor and tell me where your feet naturally lay.

JRutledge Fri May 04, 2007 11:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
How so? Nothing says the bottom of his feet have to be touching the floor; only that his feet have to be on the floor. Lay on the floor and tell me where your feet naturally lay.
So what you are saying is, when a player falls to the floor, their feet stay on the floor at all times?

Peace

deecee Fri May 04, 2007 11:49am
this is where the rule book and common sense meet and a lot of officials get lost in the intersection.

its ok snaq and coach p thats how you can do it -- i sure as heck wont.

Adam Fri May 04, 2007 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
So what you are saying is, when a player falls to the floor, their feet stay on the floor at all times?

Peace
No, but while they're not on the floor, they're most likely airborne. :)

Adam Fri May 04, 2007 12:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee
this is where the rule book and common sense meet and a lot of officials get lost in the intersection.
its ok snaq and coach p thats how you can do it -- i sure as heck wont.
Didn't say that's how I'd call it, I'm only saying that an argument could be made. I'm still not sure, frankly; although it's probably a had-to-be-there thing. If the player slips momentarily and continues to actively guard the dribbler, I'll probably continue my count. If he falls flat on his face and just lays there; I'll probably stop play for an injury timeout.
Oh, and you can't accuse those of us trying to actually see what the rule says of being like Old School and then turn around and offer your comment in red; which is a lot closer to OS's rules philosophy.


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