back court

[co2ice]

I really hate to beat a dead horse, but I never claimed to be real quick. " One more time for the slow guy huh fella's".
If A1 inbounds the ball under A's own basket the ball is tipped by A2 and goes into the back court and then A2 recovers the ball is this a violation?
Mark Dexter has a 4 step formula for determining this, but I was unable to locate this in previous posts. Thanks in advance!!!!!

[Mark Dexter]

This is not my formula, just one that I have seen dozens of times before on this and other internet discussion boards.

Here are the four points. If any are missing, it's not a backcourt violation:
(1) Team A must have control.
(2) The ball must obtain frontcourt status.
(3) A must be the first to touch the ball before it goes into the backcourt.
(4) A must be the first to touch the ball in the backcourt.

In this case, A never had control (no team control on a throw-in) so it is not a violation.

[co2ice]

Thanks Mark, I justy found the post and even the very same stich, I'm relieved I made the right call. And it was actually bballrefs list. Thanks again!!

[udbomber]

In Mark Dexter's 4 points, offense does not always have to have control (point #1). Yes it is true, offense can juggle ball across the line and not have control but if the defense touches the ball on the throw-in, the throw-in ends and ball, now touching offense and going into backcourt , and now being touched by offense first is a backcourt violation.

You Make the Call!!!Advanced Situation: A team is awarded a throw-in at half court. The inbounds pass is deflected by the defense and the offensive guard, jumping in the air from his frontcourt, grabs the deflected ball while in the air and lands in his backcourt. You make the call!!!

Ruling: If you called nothing because no team control was established until the ball was caught in the air and the first landing of the feet was in the backcourt, you are incorrect. If you called a backcourt violation because the throw-in ends when it is legally touched by the defense, you are correct. The airborne guard gains player and team control in the air after having left the floor from his frontcourt therefore having frontcourt status. As soon as the guard lands in his backcourt, he has committed a backcourt violation.

Rule 9.9.3: A player from the team not in control (defensive player or during a jump ball or throw-in) may legally jump from his/her frontcourt, secure control of the ball with both feet off the floor and return to the floor with one or both feet in the backcourt. (Casebook Situation)
Note: The exception granted during a throw-in ends when the throw-in ends and is only for the player making the initial touch on the ball.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by udbomber

In Mark Dexter's 4 points, offense does not always have to have control (point #1). Yes it is true, offense can juggle ball across the line and not have control but if the defense touches the ball on the throw-in, the throw-in ends and ball, now touching offense and going into backcourt , and now being touched by offense first is a backcourt violation.

Not true. No team control in frontcourt. No violation.

[lpbreeze]

Yah I remember from one of the backcourt posts that no it would not be a backcourt violation. If A1 shot the ball, off rim, then a2 taps it out and it goes to the backcourt and then a3 grabs it would that be backcourt? I would again say no but I'm not positive. And would it matter if the tap is intentional like a controlled tap. A tap pass.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by udbomber

In Mark Dexter's 4 points, offense does not always have to have control (point #1). Yes it is true, offense can juggle ball across the line and not have control but if the defense touches the ball on the throw-in, the throw-in ends and ball, now touching offense and going into backcourt , and now being touched by offense first is a backcourt violation.

Sigh.......

Completely wrong.

Lah me.....

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Lah me.....

Nice! Another appearance of "Lah me..." That's the JR we know!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

That's the JR we know!

And love......

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by udbomber

In Mark Dexter's 4 points, offense does not always have to have control (point #1). Yes it is true, offense can juggle ball across the line and not have control but if the defense touches the ball on the throw-in, the throw-in ends and ball, now touching offense and going into backcourt , and now being touched by offense first is a backcourt violation.

You Make the Call!!!Advanced Situation: A team is awarded a throw-in at half court. The inbounds pass is deflected by the defense and the offensive guard, jumping in the air from his frontcourt, grabs the deflected ball while in the air and lands in his backcourt. You make the call!!!

Ruling: If you called nothing because no team control was established until the ball was caught in the air and the first landing of the feet was in the backcourt, you are incorrect. If you called a backcourt violation because the throw-in ends when it is legally touched by the defense, you are correct. The airborne guard gains player and team control in the air after having left the floor from his frontcourt therefore having frontcourt status. As soon as the guard lands in his backcourt, he has committed a backcourt violation.

Where is this reference from?

Also, don't you see the difference between this sitch and the OP??

[Ref in PA]

Originally Posted by udbomber

In Mark Dexter's 4 points, offense does not always have to have control (point #1). Yes it is true, offense can juggle ball across the line and not have control but if the defense touches the ball on the throw-in, the throw-in ends and ball, now touching offense and going into backcourt , and now being touched by offense first is a backcourt violation.

You Make the Call!!!Advanced Situation: A team is awarded a throw-in at half court. The inbounds pass is deflected by the defense and the offensive guard, jumping in the air from his frontcourt, grabs the deflected ball while in the air and lands in his backcourt. You make the call!!!

Ruling: If you called nothing because no team control was established until the ball was caught in the air and the first landing of the feet was in the backcourt, you are incorrect. If you called a backcourt violation because the throw-in ends when it is legally touched by the defense, you are correct. The airborne guard gains player and team control in the air after having left the floor from his frontcourt therefore having frontcourt status. As soon as the guard lands in his backcourt, he has committed a backcourt violation.

Rule 9.9.3: A player from the team not in control (defensive player or during a jump ball or throw-in) may legally jump from his/her frontcourt, secure control of the ball with both feet off the floor and return to the floor with one or both feet in the backcourt. (Casebook Situation)
Note: The exception granted during a throw-in ends when the throw-in ends and is only for the player making the initial touch on the ball.

In your example above, team control was established. When A1 leaps from front court and secures control in the air, player and team control is established at that point in time (Point 1). Beacause A1 is in the air and lept from the front court and has touched the ball, the ball has front court status (point 2). A1 is holding the ball as he lands in back court (points 3 and 4 are now satisfied). Now we can call the back court violation.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by udbomber

In Mark Dexter's 4 points, offense does not always have to have control (point #1). Yes it is true, offense can juggle ball across the line and not have control but if the defense touches the ball on the throw-in, the throw-in ends and ball, now touching offense and going into backcourt , and now being touched by offense first is a backcourt violation.

Good job. It's not often that someone can resurrect a 6-year old thread and be so wrong about it.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Good job. It's not often that someone can resurrect a 6-year old thread and be so wrong about it.

Didn't even notice the date of the OP.

[udbomber]

Pay close attention:

In co2ice scenario, it is not a backcourt violation because A2 touched the inbounds pass and not the defense so you are correct, it is not team control.

Pay close attention: My response was to Mark Dexter's rule of thumb for throw in backcourt violations in particular #1.

There can be a violation for A2 if he leaves the frontcourt with feet in the air on an inbounds pass and the defense touches the ball, then A2 catches ball in the air and lands in backcourt. His player location is now established immediately as frontcourt with the touch of the defense since his last spot was in the frontcourt where his feet were before going airborne.

Read your casebook.

I love this game. Alan

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by udbomber

There can be a violation for A2 if he leaves the frontcourt with feet in the air on an inbounds pass and the defense touches the ball, then A2 catches ball in the air and lands in backcourt. His player location is now established immediately as frontcourt with the touch of the defense since his last spot was in the frontcourt where his feet were before going airborne.

Read your casebook.

Pay close attention.

The highlighted statement is completely wrong. The player location is not established by the touch of the defense. The player location was established immediately when the player jumped. Period.

Read, learn and understand your rulebook. Rule 4-35-3.