back court

[co2ice]

I really hate to beat a dead horse, but I never claimed to be real quick. " One more time for the slow guy huh fella's".
If A1 inbounds the ball under A's own basket the ball is tipped by A2 and goes into the back court and then A2 recovers the ball is this a violation?
Mark Dexter has a 4 step formula for determining this, but I was unable to locate this in previous posts. Thanks in advance!!!!!

[Mark Dexter]

This is not my formula, just one that I have seen dozens of times before on this and other internet discussion boards.

Here are the four points. If any are missing, it's not a backcourt violation:
(1) Team A must have control.
(2) The ball must obtain frontcourt status.
(3) A must be the first to touch the ball before it goes into the backcourt.
(4) A must be the first to touch the ball in the backcourt.

In this case, A never had control (no team control on a throw-in) so it is not a violation.

[co2ice]

Thanks Mark, I justy found the post and even the very same stich, I'm relieved I made the right call. And it was actually bballrefs list. Thanks again!!

[udbomber]

In Mark Dexter's 4 points, offense does not always have to have control (point #1). Yes it is true, offense can juggle ball across the line and not have control but if the defense touches the ball on the throw-in, the throw-in ends and ball, now touching offense and going into backcourt , and now being touched by offense first is a backcourt violation.

You Make the Call!!!Advanced Situation: A team is awarded a throw-in at half court. The inbounds pass is deflected by the defense and the offensive guard, jumping in the air from his frontcourt, grabs the deflected ball while in the air and lands in his backcourt. You make the call!!!

Ruling: If you called nothing because no team control was established until the ball was caught in the air and the first landing of the feet was in the backcourt, you are incorrect. If you called a backcourt violation because the throw-in ends when it is legally touched by the defense, you are correct. The airborne guard gains player and team control in the air after having left the floor from his frontcourt therefore having frontcourt status. As soon as the guard lands in his backcourt, he has committed a backcourt violation.

Rule 9.9.3: A player from the team not in control (defensive player or during a jump ball or throw-in) may legally jump from his/her frontcourt, secure control of the ball with both feet off the floor and return to the floor with one or both feet in the backcourt. (Casebook Situation)
Note: The exception granted during a throw-in ends when the throw-in ends and is only for the player making the initial touch on the ball.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by udbomber

In Mark Dexter's 4 points, offense does not always have to have control (point #1). Yes it is true, offense can juggle ball across the line and not have control but if the defense touches the ball on the throw-in, the throw-in ends and ball, now touching offense and going into backcourt , and now being touched by offense first is a backcourt violation.

Not true. No team control in frontcourt. No violation.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by udbomber

In Mark Dexter's 4 points, offense does not always have to have control (point #1). Yes it is true, offense can juggle ball across the line and not have control but if the defense touches the ball on the throw-in, the throw-in ends and ball, now touching offense and going into backcourt , and now being touched by offense first is a backcourt violation.

Sigh.......

Completely wrong.

Lah me.....

[lpbreeze]

Yah I remember from one of the backcourt posts that no it would not be a backcourt violation. If A1 shot the ball, off rim, then a2 taps it out and it goes to the backcourt and then a3 grabs it would that be backcourt? I would again say no but I'm not positive. And would it matter if the tap is intentional like a controlled tap. A tap pass.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by udbomber

In Mark Dexter's 4 points, offense does not always have to have control (point #1). Yes it is true, offense can juggle ball across the line and not have control but if the defense touches the ball on the throw-in, the throw-in ends and ball, now touching offense and going into backcourt , and now being touched by offense first is a backcourt violation.

You Make the Call!!!Advanced Situation: A team is awarded a throw-in at half court. The inbounds pass is deflected by the defense and the offensive guard, jumping in the air from his frontcourt, grabs the deflected ball while in the air and lands in his backcourt. You make the call!!!

Ruling: If you called nothing because no team control was established until the ball was caught in the air and the first landing of the feet was in the backcourt, you are incorrect. If you called a backcourt violation because the throw-in ends when it is legally touched by the defense, you are correct. The airborne guard gains player and team control in the air after having left the floor from his frontcourt therefore having frontcourt status. As soon as the guard lands in his backcourt, he has committed a backcourt violation.

Where is this reference from?

Also, don't you see the difference between this sitch and the OP??

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Lah me.....

Nice! Another appearance of "Lah me..." That's the JR we know!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

That's the JR we know!

And love......

[udbomber]

Read the new casebook scenario this year with the asterik.

General rule is: there is no backcourt violation on throw-ins but all backcourt rules still apply meaning you can throw the ball into the backcourt on a throw-in after being in the frontcourt but you have to watch player location on the throw-in.

If player receives pass in the air from his leaving his feet in the frontcourt last and the defensive player touches the inbounds pass, you now immediately have to go with player location at that moment which in this case is the receiving player being in the frontcourt, receives inbounds pass and now lands in the backcourt for a violation.

A shot off the rim touching the offensive man and into the backcourt shows no possession yet so legal to retrieve ball in backcourt.

Same for an inbounds pass from baseline with throw lofting to the half-court line where a receiving offensive player is not sure where his location is so he jumps and tips the ball into the backcourt making it all legal with no possession. But if touched by defense on inbounds pass, it ends and player location is immediately established. Mid-court immediately becomes an out of bounds line for offense.
I love this game.
Alan

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by udbomber

Read the new casebook scenario this year with the asterik.

General rule is: there is no backcourt violation on throw-ins but all backcourt rules still apply meaning you can throw the ball into the backcourt on a throw-in after being in the frontcourt but you have to watch player location on the throw-in.

If player receives pass in the air from his leaving his feet in the frontcourt last and the defensive player touches the inbounds pass, you now immediately have to go with player location at that moment which in this case is the receiving player being in the frontcourt, receives inbounds pass and now lands in the backcourt for a violation.

A shot off the rim touching the offensive man and into the backcourt shows no possession yet so legal to retrieve ball in backcourt.

Same for an inbounds pass from baseline with throw lofting to the half-court line where a receiving offensive player is not sure where his location is so he jumps and tips the ball into the backcourt making it all legal with no possession. But if touched by defense on inbounds pass, it ends and player location is immediately established. Mid-court immediately becomes an out of bounds line for offense.
I love this game.
Alan

You may love this game, but you're still wrong.
We know about the new play rulings. You are still wrong.

Do you want me to explain why to you or shall we let you live in ignorant bliss?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by udbomber

Read the new casebook scenario this year with the asterik.

General rule is: there is no backcourt violation on throw-ins but all backcourt rules still apply meaning you can throw the ball into the backcourt on a throw-in after being in the frontcourt but you have to watch player location on the throw-in.

If player receives pass in the air from his leaving his feet in the frontcourt last and the defensive player touches the inbounds pass, you now immediately have to go with player location at that moment which in this case is the receiving player being in the frontcourt, receives inbounds pass and now lands in the backcourt for a violation.

A shot off the rim touching the offensive man and into the backcourt shows no possession yet so legal to retrieve ball in backcourt.

Same for an inbounds pass from baseline with throw lofting to the half-court line where a receiving offensive player is not sure where his location is so he jumps and tips the ball into the backcourt making it all legal with no possession. But if touched by defense on inbounds pass, it ends and player location is immediately established. Mid-court immediately becomes an out of bounds line for offense.
I love this game.
Alan

You are so wrong it's hard to decide where to start.

It doesn't matter who touches the ball. If no team control is established, the "offensive" team can recover the ball in their backcourt any time.

You're getting confused about two very different scenarios.

If a player tips a throw-in pass, then an offensive player catches the ball while airborne from the frontcourt he/she creates player and team control with frontcourt status at that time. When he/she lands in the backcourt, it's a backcourt violation.

The only time a player can jump from his/her frontcourt, catch the ball, and land in his/her backcourt is during a throw-in. That is the 9.3.3 exception. It has nothing to do with recovering a ball that has backcourt status.

[Ref in PA]

Originally Posted by udbomber

In Mark Dexter's 4 points, offense does not always have to have control (point #1). Yes it is true, offense can juggle ball across the line and not have control but if the defense touches the ball on the throw-in, the throw-in ends and ball, now touching offense and going into backcourt , and now being touched by offense first is a backcourt violation.

You Make the Call!!!Advanced Situation: A team is awarded a throw-in at half court. The inbounds pass is deflected by the defense and the offensive guard, jumping in the air from his frontcourt, grabs the deflected ball while in the air and lands in his backcourt. You make the call!!!

Ruling: If you called nothing because no team control was established until the ball was caught in the air and the first landing of the feet was in the backcourt, you are incorrect. If you called a backcourt violation because the throw-in ends when it is legally touched by the defense, you are correct. The airborne guard gains player and team control in the air after having left the floor from his frontcourt therefore having frontcourt status. As soon as the guard lands in his backcourt, he has committed a backcourt violation.

Rule 9.9.3: A player from the team not in control (defensive player or during a jump ball or throw-in) may legally jump from his/her frontcourt, secure control of the ball with both feet off the floor and return to the floor with one or both feet in the backcourt. (Casebook Situation)
Note: The exception granted during a throw-in ends when the throw-in ends and is only for the player making the initial touch on the ball.

In your example above, team control was established. When A1 leaps from front court and secures control in the air, player and team control is established at that point in time (Point 1). Beacause A1 is in the air and lept from the front court and has touched the ball, the ball has front court status (point 2). A1 is holding the ball as he lands in back court (points 3 and 4 are now satisfied). Now we can call the back court violation.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by udbomber

In Mark Dexter's 4 points, offense does not always have to have control (point #1). Yes it is true, offense can juggle ball across the line and not have control but if the defense touches the ball on the throw-in, the throw-in ends and ball, now touching offense and going into backcourt , and now being touched by offense first is a backcourt violation.

Good job. It's not often that someone can resurrect a 6-year old thread and be so wrong about it.