Super delayed Violation

[JamieSlick]

This was one of our test questions this year in Canada; NCAA rules with modifications that don't matter in this post. Team A is shooting free throws. B1, on the lane closest to the hoop, steps in early. Delayed violation. A1 (shooter) calls a timeout. Does the delayed violation carry over to after the timeout has expired? Said another way, does A1 get another shot after the timeout if he misses the free throw? Test answer said it does, but I can't find the ruling anywhere in the NCAA rulebook. Your comments would be appreciated.

[crew]

yes the violation is carried over after the t.o. very dumb rule i think.

[JeffRef]

Originally posted by JamieSlick
This was one of our test questions this year in Canada; NCAA rules with modifications that don't matter in this post. Team A is shooting free throws. B1, on the lane closest to the hoop, steps in early. Delayed violation. A1 (shooter) calls a timeout. Does the delayed violation carry over to after the timeout has expired? Said another way, does A1 get another shot after the timeout if he misses the free throw? Test answer said it does, but I can't find the ruling anywhere in the NCAA rulebook. Your comments would be appreciated.

My test hasn't been corrected yet, but after reading your post it looks like I got it wrong. I searched everywhere in the book too and found nothing. My reasoning for answering NO was "if A1 misses and we give him a substitute throw, nobody in the gym (other than my partners) will understand what is going on. Coach B goes nuts and Coach A is confused but certainly doesn't say anything". It just doesn't seem right.

Hopefully someone can find a reference. I know many others who are confused with this question as well. We can't seem to get an interpretation.

[JamieSlick]

The funny thing about this post is that I have NEVER actually seen this situation happen, which makes it a certainty that it will be asked on a test!

[ChuckElias]

A "super delayed violation"? Is that anything like "secret double probation"? If so, it must be time for a. . . ROAD TRIP!!

Chuck

[JamieSlick]

Animal house ,right? I think it's double secret probation!

[BktBallRef]

This question keeps popping up. Yes, under NF and NCAA rules, the violation is still in force. There was post about this sitch several weeks ago. Click on the link below.

http://www.officialforum.com/thread/3152

[JeffRef]

Let's take this to an even higher level of improbability...

So B1 violates and A calls time out. So we know that A1 gets a substitute throw if he misses. Before the ball becomes live for A1's first throw, A2 is assesed with a direct tecnical foul. After B shoots two free throws, they decide they want a time out. I could go on with other interruptions but you see where I'm going with this, right? It could be 5 minutes before A1 gets to shoot his original free throw. He misses. We give him a substitute throw. Coach B wants an explanation: "Sure coach, don't you remember 5 minutes ago when your player violated on A1's free throw and then he called a time out instead of taking the free throw?"

Jamie, maybe this will be on next year's test. And yes it is "double secret probation"

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by JeffRef
Let's take this to an even higher level of improbability...

So B1 violates and A calls time out. So we know that A1 gets a substitute throw if he misses. Before the ball becomes live for A1's first throw, A2 is assesed with a direct tecnical foul. After B shoots two free throws, they decide they want a time out. I could go on with other interruptions but you see where I'm going with this, right? It could be 5 minutes before A1 gets to shoot his original free throw. He misses. We give him a substitute throw. Coach B wants an explanation: "Sure coach, don't you remember 5 minutes ago when your player violated on A1's free throw and then he called a time out instead of taking the free throw?"

Jamie, maybe this will be on next year's test. And yes it is "double secret probation"

Look at it this way.I don't think anything can come between you having to call the delayed B1 violation and awarding a substitute throw if the FT is missed,except an A violation of some kind on the FT.Time lapse doesn't matter.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Dec 5th, 2001 at 02:14 PM]

[JeffRef]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
This question keeps popping up. Yes, under NF and NCAA rules, the violation is still in force. There was post about this sitch several weeks ago. Click on the link below.

http://www.officialforum.com/thread/3152

Thanks Tony. I didn't realize we beat this one to death already.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Look at it this way.I don't think anything can come between you having to call the delayed B1 violation and awarding a substitute throw if the FT is missed,except an A violation of some kind on the FT.Time lapse doesn't matter.

You have to remember that we're talking NCAA. They have that funky rule where the FTs are not shot in the order in which the fouls occur.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by JamieSlick
Animal house ,right? I think it's double secret probation!

Yes, it's Animal House, and of course you're right. I'm sure it's "double secret probation" and not secret double. Darn it.

Chuck

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

You have to remember that we're talking NCAA. They have that funky rule where the FTs are not shot in the order in which the fouls occur.

Tony,if a T in NCAA is called before you shoot the FT with the delayed violation,don't they shoot the T,then go back to the original FT that had the B1 violation?Wouldn't we end up the same as I said above?

[JamieSlick]

Thanks for the help everyone. Sorry to beat this to death; didn't realize it was posted previously!