AAU Issues

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by AZ_REF

Last year we had a large national AAU Tournament here. The play was good but the coaches were slightly out of line. At least three were removed from gyms by the Police Officers at the University hosting the event.

They're coming back this year. We asked our supervisor to discuss penalties for ejection with the Tournament Director. In regular season high school ball, if you get ejected you sit 1 game. We suggested that if a coach gets ejected he sits a game and if he's ejected twice, he's done for the tourney. The director refused and told us that the problem coaches weren't coming back anyways. Does anyone have similar rules for AAU Tournaments where you are?

That is the nature of the beast. I had to put a spectator out yesterday and really didnt have any problems with coaches this weekend.

[SMEngmann]

In my opinion, the vast majority of problems in AAU games come because the officials on the games haven't yet developed the level of expertise needed to control these games. Often, AAU officials are younger officials looking to work higher level ball, or guys who will ref 10-11 games in a row to pick up a paycheck, and couldn't care less about the coaches. Also, many of the coaches are slighly less scrupulous than coaches in high school games because AAU is a business to them, and they don't have a teaching job they need to worry about.

My philosophy when I work AAU games is that I will not be bullied or intimidated, nor will I make any concessions in terms of the rules or sportsmanship. Many guys have the attitude that because it's summer ball, it's relaxed and they will have more tolerance for BS than they ordinarily would, I go in with the opposite approach. There are plenty of AAU games around, and if the tournament director doesn't like how I deal with coaches or wants me to bend, I will simply not work those games. If the director sides with a coach over me, fine, I just won't work. I think if collectively we as officials adopted the policy that we will not bend to simply help the tournament director make a buck, then we'd be much better off.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SMEngmann

In my opinion, the vast majority of problems in AAU games come because the officials on the games haven't yet developed the level of expertise needed to control these games. Often, AAU officials are younger officials looking to work higher level ball, or guys who will ref 10-11 games in a row to pick up a paycheck, and couldn't care less about the coaches. Also, many of the coaches are slighly less scrupulous than coaches in high school games because AAU is a business to them, and they don't have a teaching job they need to worry about.

My philosophy when I work AAU games is that I will not be bullied or intimidated, nor will I make any concessions in terms of the rules or sportsmanship. Many guys have the attitude that because it's summer ball, it's relaxed and they will have more tolerance for BS than they ordinarily would, I go in with the opposite approach. There are plenty of AAU games around, and if the tournament director doesn't like how I deal with coaches or wants me to bend, I will simply not work those games. If the director sides with a coach over me, fine, I just won't work. I think if collectively we as officials adopted the policy that we will not bend to simply help the tournament director make a buck, then we'd be much better off.

I do not think the over all problem is ever the officials. I think the problem is the tournament structure. There is money these teams put into these teams and often times the coaches are not real coaches. You get some dad, pro athlete or business owner running a team rather than someone that has that kind of training or background. I have seen some of the most competent officials have to deal with the most out of hand coaches and players. You can have all the best intentions and attitudes and some coach that has never been reprimanded all summer long can give you crap. I have thrown out coaches only to have them try to approach me after the game (not in a threatening way) about why they were thrown out and an evaluation of what my resume was. I once had a coach try to tell me that I was not a HS official because I was not wearing an IHSA Patch on my sleeve during a tournament. Little did the dumb azz know I do not wear patches during those kinds of games (a lot of people do not wear them). But you could not tell that to this fool. So it really never is going to matter how good you are or how experienced you are. These games will always have some kind of problem unless tournament directors want to put their foot down. But that might mean they lose money or teams in the process. So that will not happen anytime soon in most cases under the current structure.

Peace

[SMEngmann]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not think the over all problem is ever the officials. I think the problem is the tournament structure. There is money these teams put into these teams and often times the coaches are not real coaches. You get some dad, pro athlete or business owner running a team rather than someone that has that kind of training or background. I have seen some of the most competent officials have to deal with the most out of hand coaches and players. You can have all the best intentions and attitudes and some coach that has never been reprimanded all summer long can give you crap. I have thrown out coaches only to have them try to approach me after the game (not in a threatening way) about why they were thrown out and an evaluation of what my resume was. I once had a coach try to tell me that I was not a HS official because I was not wearing an IHSA Patch on my sleeve during a tournament. Little did the dumb azz know I do not wear patches during those kinds of games (a lot of people do not wear them). But you could not tell that to this fool. So it really never is going to matter how good you are or how experienced you are. These games will always have some kind of problem unless tournament directors want to put their foot down. But that might mean they lose money or teams in the process. So that will not happen anytime soon in most cases under the current structure.

Peace

I think that you're right in many ways here. The point that I was trying to make is that officials who work these kinds of games should put up with far LESS crap, when a lot of guys put up with more. Tournament directors who are looking at the money will often allow coaches to protest and complain about the officiating and try to accomodate them. I've had coaches similar to the one that you've had. Unfortunately, I think a lot of guys will try to adjust or accomodate to the wishes of the tournament director to keep the games. My personal attitude is that if a coach, or anyone goes whining to a tournament director, and the guy doesn't back me up, I will just choose not to work for the guy anymore, it's just not worth it.

I think the other part of the coin is the guys who work 10-12 games in a day (which again speaks to the greed of the tournament director). Those guys do a disservice, in my opinion, to the games that they're working, and it's with these guys in mind that tournament directors will give teams leeway to protest.

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by SMEngmann

I think that you're right in many ways here. The point that I was trying to make is that officials who work these kinds of games should put up with far LESS crap, when a lot of guys put up with more. Tournament directors who are looking at the money will often allow coaches to protest and complain about the officiating and try to accomodate them. I've had coaches similar to the one that you've had. Unfortunately, I think a lot of guys will try to adjust or accomodate to the wishes of the tournament director to keep the games. My personal attitude is that if a coach, or anyone goes whining to a tournament director, and the guy doesn't back me up, I will just choose not to work for the guy anymore, it's just not worth it.

I think the other part of the coin is the guys who work 10-12 games in a day (which again speaks to the greed of the tournament director). Those guys do a disservice, in my opinion, to the games that they're working, and it's with these guys in mind that tournament directors will give teams leeway to protest.

I also agree and if you work that many games a day, you are typically brain dead after the 4th games, at least I am. I only work 3 a day and 4 is pushing it.

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by SMEngmann

I think the other part of the coin is the guys who work 10-12 games in a day (which again speaks to the greed of the tournament director). Those guys do a disservice, in my opinion, to the games that they're working, and it's with these guys in mind that tournament directors will give teams leeway to protest.

I don't work a lot of AAU ball...maybe one or two tournaments a month. But every AAU tournament I have worked is run "right." The tournament director hires an official to assign the games -- someone who knows the quality of the officials. I once tried to get a friend a game from one assignor and he said he would not use this guy for this tournament because he could not keep up with the fast pace. I can show you AAU directors who advertise their tournaments as using only certified officials and limiting them to three games/day. This is a marketing decision for them, for clearly other AAU directors have no such limits. We also get paid well for AAU: $35-$40/game is common.

I am not saying there are no problems at AAU. I am saying that in the AAU tournaments that I work (for five or six different AAU programs), we have the authority to enforce the rules (including sportsmanship) and the support of the tournament director. I had a game last year where I made a girl remove her earrings even though "she's been playing all year with them." I overheard the coach tell the player's mom that it would do no good to talk to the tournament director (for a waiver) since he will support the official. That's enough for me.

[Junker]

Part of the problem with these tournaments is that officials are sometimes hard to find for them. Personally, I only work 1 AAU type tournament each year and that is put on my my JUCO assignor. It's more of a chance to get together with other officials before the season starts. I would consider working more of these tournaments if A. the pay was better, B. 3 man crews were assigned and C. poor sportsmanship was NOT TOLERATED. Until those two things happen, often at these tournaments you are going to get newer officials or worst case scenario, fans working the games.

[OHBBREF]

I can tell that for the last three weeks we have run three differrent super regional tournaments - in most cases there was at least 1 college level official on every floor at all times (all the way to D1 level). the problems on the floor with coaches after the first round are few and far between. Insanity is dealt with swiftly and decisively.
By the first round of bracket play everyone knows what is expected of them and they spend their time coaching for the most part.
The AAU has it's own regulations about ejections for coaches and players so the sight manager has little to do but enforce that since the AAU has approval rights to all sanctioned events.
I beleive that for boys the first one was free, then if a second one occured they were out a game and if there was another they were done for the tourney.
If true that is outrageous however having officials prepared to deal with problems immediately sort of eliminates that issue also.
this weekend we had a coach go within the First three minutes of a game. I think that is a new record!

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Junker

I would consider working more of these tournaments if A. the pay was better, B. 3 man crews were assigned and C. poor sportsmanship was NOT TOLERATED. Until those two things happen, often at these tournaments you are going to get newer officials or worst case scenario, fans working the games.

Must be that new math again!