Walton / Nantz's point - 6 fouls

[Mwanr1]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Do you ever read a rule book?

You don't have a clue what a "flop" is either.

Please define "flop" in the NFHS rule book - Thanks!!!

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by Mwanr1

Please define "flop" in the NFHS rule book - Thanks!!!

Mr Official for CA, when you see a defender flop (intentionally falling down to fake being fouled, regardless of what spot on the court you think he is entitled to) in the middle of the lane or wherever, what do "you" have?

[Mwanr1]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

Mr Official for CA, when you see a defender flop (intentionally falling down to fake being fouled, regardless of what spot on the court you think he is entitled to) in the middle of the lane or wherever, what do "you" have?

NOTHING - get up. "OPPS sorry ref, poor footwork!"

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by Mwanr1

NOTHING - get up. "OPPS sorry ref, poor footwork!"

Ok.. now you have A2 falling over poor footwork player who intentionally fell to the floor to induce a call from the official, now what do you have? Or better yet, A1 coming down then falls with all 250 lbs of himself on to said "intentionally fallling down to induce a charge call from the official player"? You still have nothing, but bodies all over the darn place because you're letting your players in your game that you're required to officiate by rule, to FLOP ALL OVER THE DAMN PLACE! But then again, it's only poor footwork...

[Mwanr1]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

Ok.. now you have A2 falling over poor footwork player who intentionally fell to the floor to induce a call from the official, now what do you have? Or better yet, A1 coming down then falls with all 250 lbs of himself on to said "intentionally fallling down to induce a charge call from the official player"? You still have nothing, but bodies all over the darn place because you're letting your players in your game that you're required to officiate by rule, to FLOP ALL OVER THE DAMN PLACE! But then again, it's only poor footwork...

Induce a call? I must see it to determine whether he/she is inducing a call. Sorry, I am unable to answer such question as I must view the play to determine what I should call, or not. What would you call in this scenario?

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by Mwanr1

Induce a call? I must see it to determine whether he/she is inducing a call. Sorry, I am unable to answer such question as I must view the play to determine what I should call, or not. What would you call in this scenario?

It's not the play that I'm talking about.. I'm moreless talking about a player flopping, which you think is a stupid rule. If the player intentionally falls to the ground to induce a charge call without any contact from the offensive player, and all you have is get up swift foot. I think this could present major problems like the scenario i previously described and that's probably what the FED was trying to prevent when the wrote the flop rule and its penalty.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Mwanr1

Please define "flop" in the NFHS rule book - Thanks!!!

I'm almost certain that a nfhs POE a few years ago was "flopping". Yet never defined if I recall correctly.

I'm sure some kind soul will go up to their attic to get their old nfhs books to verify.

The fed also had quite a few words to say about "strategic fouls" - both for and against - over the last 3 or 4 yrs but as far as I know they have yet to define "strategic foul".

If you really don't know what a flop is when you see it then you've taken up the wrong sport to officiate.

[SWMOzebra]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Maybe that was part of the officials' strategy to help Florida win. Keep Oden in, it'll wear him out because he's not used to playing that much.

Yeah...didn't think about that! D@mn officials had it in last night for Ohio State! (joking here!!)

As for the OP, how can any serious basketball commentator suggest that an extra foul is needing to "compensate" for the third official on the floor? I'm not sure which one of the announcers last night was the more clueless of the two.

[jkjenning]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

Mr Official for CA, when you see a defender flop (intentionally falling down to fake being fouled, regardless of what spot on the court you think he is entitled to) in the middle of the lane or wherever, what do "you" have?

Originally Posted by Mwanr1

NOTHING - get up. "OPPS sorry ref, poor footwork!"

That's pretty stupid, Mwanr1. A clear flop should at least be called a blocking foul, imo, and for players who flop in the lane I'll gladly serve up a T because their next flop in the lane may take out a player's knee.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Mwanr1

Please define "flop" in the NFHS rule book - Thanks!!!

From a recent NFHS POE:

FLOPPING: The defensive player or screener acting as though he or she has been charged by an opponent, when in fact he or she has not been, definitely has an impact on the game. It is detrimental to the best interests of basketball. The "actor" wants to create the false impression that he or she has been fouled in the charging/guarding situation, or while he or she is screening, when in fact there is no contact or incidental contact. The "actor" falls to the court as though he or she were knocked down by the force of the contact. These actions are designed to have a foul charged to the opponent- a foul not deserved. The "flop" also incites spectators. The rules are in place to deal with such activity and must be enforced. A technical foul is charged to the actor in all cases. Coaches can have a positive impact by appropriately dealing with players who fake being fouled. It is not a part of the game. Officials must penalize the act.

The rule that is in place to deal with flops is NFHS rule 10-3-7(f)--"faking being fouled." It's been in the rule book for many, many years. The NCAA has a similar rule with similar wording.

[Mwanr1]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

From a recent NFHS POE:

FLOPPING: The defensive player or screener acting as though he or she has been charged by an opponent, when in fact he or she has not been, definitely has an impact on the game. It is detrimental to the best interests of basketball. The "actor" wants to create the false impression that he or she has been fouled in the charging/guarding situation, or while he or she is screening, when in fact there is no contact or incidental contact. The "actor" falls to the court as though he or she were knocked down by the force of the contact. These actions are designed to have a foul charged to the opponent- a foul not deserved. The "flop" also incites spectators. The rules are in place to deal with such activity and must be enforced. A technical foul is charged to the actor in all cases. Coaches can have a positive impact by appropriately dealing with players who fake being fouled. It is not a part of the game. Officials must penalize the act.

The rule that is in place to deal with flops is NFHS rule 10-3-7(f)--"faking being fouled." It's been in the rule book for many, many years. The NCAA has a similar rule with similar wording.

Thanks JR. I knew you will pull something out of your ***. I just hope ALL Officials will follow what the rule book says and penalize all unsporting conducts (which includes flopping).

So stick with your words and call a T each time you see a defensive player flop. Not to metion flopping is still a judement call - to you it might be a flop, to some it isn't!!! So don't just talk people, next time you see it, then CALL IT!!!

[Mwanr1]

I wonder how many officials have actually called a T on Vlade Divac throughout his career? Does anyone have the #??

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Mwanr1

Thanks JR. I knew you will pull something out of your ***. I just hope ALL Officials will follow what the rule book says and penalize all unsporting conducts (which includes flopping).

So stick with your words and call a T each time you see a defensive player flop. Not to metion flopping is still a judement call - to you it might be a flop, to some it isn't!!! So don't just talk people, next time you see it, then CALL IT!!!

You still don't have a clue, do you? Not only didn't you understand whatinthehell a "flop" really is, you obviously don't know how it's usually handled either.

It's a waste of freaking time even trying to explain things to some people.

[Mwanr1]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You still don't have a clue, do you? Not only didn't you understand whatinthehell a "flop" really is, you obviously don't know how it's usually handled either.

It's a waste of freaking time even trying to explain things to some people.

I know what a flop is and if in case I do see a flop that's totally non-basketball move, then I will take further action. But not all flops are bad flops. Having a rule that states "flopping = T" is good to protect the refs' interest. But I'm sure most of the officials have not called it more than once or twice throughout their career.

Let me ask you this: an offensive player is making a move to the basket and scream or yell "AHHHHHHH" to try to catch the ref's attention (distort an official's mind and let him/her believe that he/she was hitted on the way to the basket). To some, the offensive player is also inducing a foul call. Should you or should you not call a "T" and penalize the offensive player who is (according to NFHS 10-4-7 f) "faking being fouled?"

In reality, all coaches and players want an extra possession or two to their favor. Basketball isn't always just black and white!!!

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by TriggerMN

Ahh, 8 minute quarters...the good ol' days...

There was a post awhile back (Jan??) about a state (MN?) that went with 18m halves for NFHS games.

That is 36 / 5 = 1 foul every 7m 12s.