Ohio State & Georgetown

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by All_Heart

I guess I will make the first post on this.

2nd Half - 6:37 - Definitely should have been a PC!

2nd Half - 8:50 - Hibbert's hold on the rebound (from my seat on the coach) should have not been called. There were 3 Ohio State players there for the rebound. NO disadvantage gained by this small hold.

By the way both of these calls where made by Valentine.

The first call in my opinion could have gone either way. I would have likely gone with the PC foul. BTW, I think Valentine was waiting for someone else to make a call and took it because of the contact.

Second call was a great call. You cannot hold someone when they are going for the ball. If you have 3 fouls you cannot be so stupid to make that play on a much smaller player. That needed to be called and was properly.

Peace

[tjones1]

The first call was tough. I thought looking at it live it was a PC, but after looking at the replay I somewhat changed my mind and thought he had it right. I agree with Jeff, that it certainly looked like Valentine was expecting a call from the C on that play.

2nd call I thought was a great call. Clearly gained an advantage by holding someone trying to get the ball.

[All_Heart]

Originally Posted by tjones1

The first call was tough. I thought looking at it live it was a PC, but after looking at the replay I somewhat changed my mind and thought he had it right. I agree with Jeff, that it certainly looked like Valentine was expecting a call from the C on that play.

What made you change your mind?

I don't think that he is expecting C to make the call this is Lead's call.

Originally Posted by tjones1

2nd call I thought was a great call. Clearly gained an advantage by holding someone trying to get the ball.

I agree that Hibbert held him BUT if you have a patient whistle then Ohio State picks up the ball and they play on. I think this is a great play to watch the whole thing and determine if there is an advantage gained.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by All_Heart

What made you change your mind?

I don't think that he is expecting C to make the call this is Lead's call.

That is not true at all. The ball came from an angle where the C would have a great look at the play. The lead is not the only one to make this call and sometimes not the person to make this call at all.

Peace

[All_Heart]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The first call in my opinion could have gone either way. I would have likely gone with the PC foul. BTW, I think Valentine was waiting for someone else to make a call and took it because of the contact.

I don't see how it could go either way. If this is the NBA then it is a block HOWEVER in high school & college this is definitely a PC.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Second call was a great call. You cannot hold someone when they are going for the ball. If you have 3 fouls you cannot be so stupid to make that play on a much smaller player. That needed to be called and was properly.

I would agree with you if there was a Georgetown player about to pick up that ball but there were 3 Ohio State players there to pick up the ball. How was an advantage gained?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by All_Heart

I don't see how it could go either way. If this is the NBA then it is a block HOWEVER in high school & college this is definitely a PC.

It could have gone either way because it was so close. It is one thing to look at something on slow motion replay. It is quite another to call the game in full speed.

Originally Posted by All_Heart

I would agree with you if there was a Georgetown player about to pick up that ball but there were 3 Ohio State players there to pick up the ball. How was an advantage gained?

How many players were around the ball is not the issue. There was an advantage by holding the player he was standing next to. It does not matter how many other players are around. If that player had an opportunity to get the ball and he is held, that is an advantage. Maybe if the ball went in the opposite direction I might agree with you, but not when these two players could get the ball. If you do not want to get called for something, do not hold them.

Peace

[All_Heart]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It could have gone either way because it was so close. It is one thing to look at something on slow motion replay. It is quite another to call the game in full speed.

I never saw it in slow motion. I only saw it at full speed. I will be going home later to review it but this was a PC in my opinion.

I agree that it is alot harder to make that call live in a game of this magnitude. I am also not saying that I could do a better job then Valentine in this game. I am however able to point out a call that was nailed or missed. In this case I feel that he missed it. This is how we get better by watching games and determining what should be called and what shouldn't be called by rule.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

How many players were around the ball is not the issue. There was an advantage by holding the player he was standing next to. It does not matter how many other players are around. If that player had an opportunity to get the ball and he is held, that is an advantage. Maybe if the ball went in the opposite direction I might agree with you, but not when these two players could get the ball. If you do not want to get called for something, do not hold them

I respect your opinion but I disagree.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by All_Heart

I never saw it in slow motion. I only saw it at full speed. I will be going home later to review it but this was a PC in my opinion.

I agree that it is alot harder to make that call live in a game of this magnitude. I am also not saying that I could do a better job then Valentine in this game. I am however able to point out a call that was nailed or missed. In this case I feel that he missed it. This is how we get better by watching games and determining what should be called and what shouldn't be called by rule.

I respect your opinion but I disagree.

You know what they say about people with opinions right?

Peace

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You know what they say about people with opinions right?

Peace

For those that don't, I'll tell ya. Opinions are like a$$holes -- everyone has one, and everyone else's stinks but your own.

As for the plays in question. The drive to the basket was a definite player control. I thought so in live action, and I thought so again when I backed it up on the DVR and watched it in super slow-mo. It was definitely a late whistle from Big Teddy at lead, however, I think that he was probably expecting his partner who's area it came from to get it, and when no one else took it, he had to come in and clean up the mess.

As far as the hold by Hibbert, that was as ticky tack as they come. There was hardly a hold there at all, and as many before me stated, OSU was still going to get the ball. Where's the advantage?

[All_Heart]

What was the coach doing on the floor after the block!?

It doesn't matter if there was a timeout requested! A timeout was not granted until after the foul was called. The coach came all the way out to the paint to yell something to Oden!

On a side note, at 10:51 in the 2nd half an OOB was missed. This was understandable due to the contact that he was zeroing in on.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

As far as the hold by Hibbert, that was as ticky tack as they come. There was hardly a hold there at all, and as many before me stated, OSU was still going to get the ball.

Three things:

1) Minor contact does not mean that it's a ticky-tack call. Minor contact can give a big advantage.

2) Call the obvious!! The hold was obvious! One player is stretching and reaching for the ball and couldn't get off the ground.

3) That is the kind of play that escalates, IMHO. Get the first one and put a stop to it.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by All_Heart

If this is the NBA then it is a block HOWEVER in high school & college this is definitely a PC.

Why? Because of the arc under the basket?

[All_Heart]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Why? Because of the arc under the basket?

No because he started his habitual motion. From my understanding the NBA rule is that you must have LGP before the player starts their habitual motion. Is this not correct?

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by All_Heart

No because he started his habitual motion. From my understanding the NBA rule is that you must have LGP before the player starts their habitual motion. Is this not correct?

Honestly, I don't know. But I've never heard that before. It should be easy enough for somebody to check on the NBA's website.

[Mark Dexter]

1st call - Player Control. Position was established well before the shooter left the floor. Valentine must have come in when the C didn't pick it up. (Right in the middle of the lane - could go either way.)

As for the hold call - it was such a blatant hold, and on a deep rebound, that I think it was a good call to make.