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-   -   Automatic T worthy? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/33189-automatic-t-worthy.html)

Adam Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Bach
He suggested that, after the first T, the second official could have wandered by and informed the coach that he would not be given a second T and therefore would not be given an easy escape from horror of witnessing his girls' embarrassing loss. If he wanted to give up on his team and leave, he would have to do so on his own volition. Otherwise, I (the official), who cannot leave and must suffer through the remaining 15:00 of the game, would expect him to suffer as well.

Personally, I like it. It's cheeky :cool: and punitive :mad:, and does not allow a selfish coach to escape when his team cannot.
I'm not personally a fan of this, but wouldn't think less of an official who is able to successfully pull it off.
You might be setting yourself up for some serious crap the rest of the game; stuff that seriously deserves a T and sets a horrible example. And, you've just told the coach that he's going to be able to get away with it.
If you can get it to work, fine; but I'd be leary of teaching newer officials this.

Mark Dexter Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Bach
One of the evaluators, after making a complimentary remark about the handling of the coach, offered another tactic. He suggested that, after the first T, the second official could have wandered by and informed the coach that he would not be given a second T and therefore would not be given an easy escape from horror of witnessing his girls' embarrassing loss.
This is one of those comebacks that gets brought up on here from time to time. For me, it's one of those things that sounds really great in my head, but I would never use on the court.

Besides - if you do something to earn a T and I'm reffing, everyone expects that the T will be called . . . and I hate to disappoint!

Jurassic Referee Fri Mar 30, 2007 02:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Bach
I was in the stands with other officials and several evaluators. One of the evaluators, after making a complimentary remark about the handling of the coach, offered another tactic. He suggested that, after the first T, the second official could have wandered by and informed the coach that he would not be given a second T and therefore would not be given an easy escape from horror of witnessing his girls' embarrassing loss. If he wanted to give up on his team and leave, he would have to do so on his own volition. Otherwise, I (the official), who cannot leave and must suffer through the remaining 15:00 of the game, would expect him to suffer as well.
Personally, I think that logic is right up there with Old School's post. It's just another excuse <b>not</b> to call a "T". You're not only letting that clown completely get away with his crap, but you're also setting up the next bunch of officials that get him to have to deal with nonsense like that. Why should they have to clean up somebody else's mess?

Put up with that crap for another 15 minutes without doing something about it? Well, I sureasheck wouldn't! Just take care of bidness. Deal with what happens and don't try to overthink these types of plays.

Old School Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:44am
Unspoken Truth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Lah me....didn't want to <b>ruin</b> a <b>relationship</b>.....

You're officiating a game, not hosting the Dr. Phil show.

If you ever want to develop into a real live, honest-to-goodness official some day, you're going to have to grow some balls. It's that simple.

As usual though, feel free to come up with some lame excuse why you <b>shouldn't</b> have called a "T".
No excuses this time. I didn't take care of business and it bothered me. A friend of mined once told me after a game we worked. I like to sleep at night. I never lost any sleep calling a deserved T, but if I failed to call a deserved T, I would be up all night kicking myself for not.

I wonder if this is not one of those issues that officials don't like to talk about openly. I mean there's some serious influential people in the basketball world. You go T up the wrong coach and that could effect your ability to keep a strong schedule. If you put too much emphasis on getting a DI schedule for example, you want to stay away from stuff like this and try to keep all relationships positive. This is a double edge sword for the official. Damn if you do, damn if you don't. I bet there are many coaches that know this.

OHBBREF Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:07pm
Everything an official does is Damned if you do Damned if you don't -
So that argument has little creedence with me.

I personally have less respect for someone who doesn't take care of business than someone who does.

But there are Politics everywhere, however the assignors will (at the upper levels) reward you for taking care of business when necessay and punish you if you do not.

At the lower levels well you just need to take care of business and deal with the consequenses. If the coaches control the league that mush I you are more likely to get black balled for your regular calls than you are for a T.

SWMOzebra Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Bach
He suggested that, after the first T, the second official could have wandered by and informed the coach that he would not be given a second T and therefore would not be given an easy escape from horror of witnessing his girls' embarrassing loss. If he wanted to give up on his team and leave, he would have to do so on his own volition. Otherwise, I (the official), who cannot leave and must suffer through the remaining 15:00 of the game, would expect him to suffer as well.
I'm not sure what I would say if my evaluator or assignor gave me this suggestion. Tell a coach no more T's for him the rest of the game? Regardless of language, conduct toward officials, conduct towards opposing coaches/players? The coach could sure make the last 15:00 of the game absolutely miserable for the officiating team. What about indirects...do you give everyone on the bench a pass as well? Even assistant coaches?

I think I'd have to tell my evaluator/assignor to give me whatever negative critique or feedback he wanted, I wouldn't do it and I'd have major issues backing a partner that did it without discussing it with me first.

He couldn't have been serious about this suggestion, could he? :confused:

K-Bach Fri Mar 30, 2007 01:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWMOzebra
He couldn't have been serious about this suggestion, could he? :confused:
Only in the most sarcastic sense of the word "serious."

Junker Fri Mar 30, 2007 01:44pm
I wouldn't tell a coach he wasn't getting a second. I may try to ignore some antics if I can when I know the coach wants to go, but if it gets too bad, you just have to dump them.

Mwanr1 Fri Mar 30, 2007 02:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School
Not a bad idea for working wreck leagues. Don't talk to the players after a call and rotate on the shooting fouls so that you're not standing there taking all the heat under the basket after the call. Had one the other day where we had a hard foul on the big players, defense got his arm over player shoulder as offense was going up and it looked bad. Because the game was close offense wanted intentional. Since we hadn't had any issues up to that point, partner ruled just a shooting foul. On my way to administer the FT's point guard had moved to the backcourt and was screaming that's an intentional! I stopped right at the top of the key and looked him right in the face, and gave him the impression that if you say another word, it will be a T. I didn't say one word to him. I just stopped and looked at him. He immediately shut up! I then went and administor the FT's. I'm not saying this is the way to do it on all occasions, but at the end of the day, I felt good that I got thru that situation without having to enforce a T. This player knew my look and that I was not gonna have anymore of that. He also knew that my look at him directly was his warning. I like to say mission accomplished.
Cause you're "OLD SCHOOL!" - most players respect older refs more than the younger ones, especially rec ball

JoeT Fri Mar 30, 2007 03:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Bach
He suggested that, after the first T, the second official could have wandered by and informed the coach that he would not be given a second T and therefore would not be given an easy escape from horror of witnessing his girls' embarrassing loss. If he wanted to give up on his team and leave, he would have to do so on his own volition. Otherwise, I (the official), who cannot leave and must suffer through the remaining 15:00 of the game, would expect him to suffer as well.
As a coach who's suffered lopsided losses, I assure you I have never been embarrassed by my team or not wanted to be with them in a difficult situation. If you think "making" me stay with them is "punitive," you're wrong. You might want to be aware of that when you use the above tactic.

If I show you up or try to embarrass you, I deserve a T. What do you deserve for hoping that I suffer embarrassment or trying to engineer a situation that you think embarrasses me?

It frightens me that an evaluator suggested such a BS move.

Adam Fri Mar 30, 2007 05:50pm
I've seen officials joke to the effect of, "If I have to stay here and finish this, so do you." However, I normally put this kind of joke into the same category as the jokes about blaming your partner for overtime. I don't take them seriously, because no official I know would honestly put up with this kind of behavior as some means of "punishing" the coach.

If the coach wants to make a statement to his players by not watching the rest of the game, he can turn the game over to his assistant and walk away on his own volition. That'll say a lot more than getting booted for being an a$$.

As K-Bach later stated, the evaluator was not serious about it, and was most likely either joking with the guys he was sitting with, or he was testing them to see what they thought of this "approach."


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