Woman's College Mechanics

[Mwanr1]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

That can't be right, can it?

At NCAAW camps, we were taught to lock down at about the 15 mark. C will always (always always always) have last second shot. Not sure about the NBA. NCAAM and NFHS, it is opposite table unless discussed during pre-game. Some HS gym only has one clock on one side of the gym. We've had games (2 person crew) where the L gets the last shot since he/she has the best look at the clock.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Mwanr1

Some HS gym only has one clock on one side of the gym.

The location of the clock should not matter to anything dealing with the last second shot.

Peace

[Mwanr1]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The location of the clock should not matter to anything dealing with the last second shot.

Peace

Try servicing schools that the horn goes off about a second or two after it hits 0:00. Then I think it is essential to look at the clock

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Mwanr1

Try servicing schools that the horn goes off about a second or two after it hits 0:00. Then I think it is essential to look at the clock

The horn is what ends the game, not the clock saying 0:00.

Also I do not know how you can watch the clock and the play at the same time. You are going to miss something. What do you do when the clock is overhead and the clock is not in your field of vision? I cannot speak for you, but I cannot watch both.

Peace

[Mwanr1]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The horn is what ends the game, not the clock saying 0:00.

Also I do not know how you can watch the clock and the play at the same time. You are going to miss something. What do you do when the clock is overhead and the clock is not in your field of vision? I cannot speak for you, but I cannot watch both.

Peace

Yes - I agree that the horn ends the game. But what if the officials know that the horn is going to have a split second delay and in order to ensure that the shot is released in time, one of the officials must keep an eye on both clock and shooter. Given we have definite knowledge that the clock will delay, we need to modify our officiating to suit the scenario. That's why we have that new rule - lag time elmiated (5-10-1). ALthough this is related more to adding time back to the clock, but "when an official has definite knowledge relative to the time involved, he/she should have the ability to put the correct time on the game clock. I beleive if we have knowledge that the time is expired, we have the power to wave off the last second shot attempt too.

It is also true that while watching the shooter, it is difficult to monitor the game clock. But we need to try our best and call what the game fairly. In terms of "missing something", the 2-person game stinks as the game can never be called perfectly. Think of a fast break scenario. The new Trail hustles down the court and often run past 2 or 4 players to trail the play. What if those 4 players started fighting? Mechanically, we are supposed to "box-in the players" but since the "T" has to hustle down the court and officiate that play, we are opening up the opp. for the players to assult each other. What i'm getting across is the 2 person game is more difficult to officiate. But we will need to try our best to officiate the game even if it requires us to call and/or see the game differently to get the play right.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Mwanr1

Yes - I agree that the horn ends the game. But what if the officials know that the horn is going to have a split second delay and in order to ensure that the shot is released in time, one of the officials must keep an eye on both clock and shooter. Given we have definite knowledge that the clock will delay, we need to modify our officiating to suit the scenario. That's why we have that new rule - lag time elmiated (5-10-1). ALthough this is related more to adding time back to the clock, but "when an official has definite knowledge relative to the time involved, he/she should have the ability to put the correct time on the game clock. I beleive if we have knowledge that the time is expired, we have the power to wave off the last second shot attempt too.

The horn does not have to be simultaneous with the clock. It has become more and more the case with clocks with tenths of a second on them, but even then there are situations where that are still not the case. The speed of light and sound also travels at different velocities which could affect your decision if you rely some much on what the clock says. Depending on the gym you are in, it is very possible that there is going to be a delay in one from the other. If the NF and NCAA want to change the rule, I might go along with you. But the horn ends the game, not what the clock reads.

Originally Posted by Mwanr1

It is also true that while watching the shooter, it is difficult to monitor the game clock. But we need to try our best and call what the game fairly. In terms of "missing something", the 2-person game stinks as the game can never be called perfectly. Think of a fast break scenario. The new Trail hustles down the court and often run past 2 or 4 players to trail the play. What if those 4 players started fighting? Mechanically, we are supposed to "box-in the players" but since the "T" has to hustle down the court and officiate that play, we are opening up the opp. for the players to assult each other. What i'm getting across is the 2 person game is more difficult to officiate. But we will need to try our best to officiate the game even if it requires us to call and/or see the game differently to get the play right.

My priority is the play and the players, not the clock. So you can say we can watch the clock and the player, but I have yet to find that easy. The only time it is easier to do both on some levels is if you are working in a college gym where the time is on the shot clock. If the clock is located on the wall, when the ball goes to certain spots on the floor, then the clock is completely out of your vision. Not sure how you can watch a shooter with your back to the clock at the same time? I know I do not have eyes in the back of my head. And this is even harder in 3 Person where you do not have the liberties to move as you would in 2 Person. So you can say "try our best" all you like, but it is sometimes impossible to watch both. Trying to convince people they can is in my opinion irresponsible. Secondly, what you are talking about requires the perfect floor configuration. If you have a completely different floor configuration, then this makes it even more impossible to accomplish.

As I said earlier, if I was working with you, I would make it clear I am not doing this. I would be watching the players and not the clock. I remember a game where an official wanted me to watch the clock while I was on table side and take the last second shot. The ball moved to the corner and I had to turn my head away from the clock and other than what I was counting in my head, I had no idea what the clock was saying. There is a reason officials have to go to the monitor to change clock issues in NCAA games. If they could watch both, then there would be no reason for looking at the monitor. You can do this all you want, you are not going to convince me to change my opinion.

Peace

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Mwanr1

Try servicing schools that the horn goes off about a second or two after it hits 0:00. Then I think it is essential to look at the clock

If it's one second, then the clock is working properly.

[jkjenning]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If it's one second, then the clock is working properly.

That is, if tenths of a second are not displayed...

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by jkjenning

That is, if tenths of a second are not displayed...

Correct -- and since the poster indicated "0:00" that would indicate that seconds only (not tenths) are displayed.

[OHBBREF]

I have only run across this one time but at Ursuline College in Cleveland Ohio this season I saw that their Game clock had Hundreths on it.
First glance scared the hell out of me
it read 0:86.

I thought I was at a track meet

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The location of the clock should not matter to anything dealing with the last second shot.

Peace

Usually it doesn't. But I have been in gyms where there is only one clock and scoreboard, behind one of the baskets. If I'm working 2-person, we might pre-game that the official facing the clock has the last shot, only because it will be in their line of sight. It rarely happens, but it is something to be aware of when you pre-game.

[Mwanr1]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Usually it doesn't. But I have been in gyms where there is only one clock and scoreboard, behind one of the baskets. If I'm working 2-person, we might pre-game that the official facing the clock has the last shot, only because it will be in their line of sight. It rarely happens, but it is something to be aware of when you pre-game.

Exactly!!!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Usually it doesn't. But I have been in gyms where there is only one clock and scoreboard, behind one of the baskets. If I'm working 2-person, we might pre-game that the official facing the clock has the last shot, only because it will be in their line of sight. It rarely happens, but it is something to be aware of when you pre-game.

The clocks are almost never positioned in a "perfect place." Once again, I think it is really stupid to be watching the clock when the play is what is important. I would rather not see the clock, and then miss a play trying to watch something that is not in my peripheral vision. If it works for you more power to you. But if you are working with me, I am not going to be watching the clock on the last second shot. What you should do in my opinion, is take a responsibility for the horn and the clock as a non-calling official and give help when needed. There is no need for this call to made instantaneously when there is 2 or 3 of you that might have information to get the call right.

Peace

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The clocks are almost never positioned in a "perfect place." Once again, I think it is really stupid to be watching the clock when the play is what is important. I would rather not see the clock, and then miss a play trying to watch something that is not in my peripheral vision. If it works for you more power to you. But if you are working with me, I am not going to be watching the clock on the last second shot. What you should do in my opinion, is take a responsibility for the horn and the clock as a non-calling official and give help when needed. There is no need for this call to made instantaneously when there is 2 or 3 of you that might have information to get the call right.

Peace

It's not clock-watching so much as just being able to see the clock. If there's 3 of us, it won't be an issue. Also, in most gyms, there's a clock visible on both sides of the court, so again, not an issue. But there's those rare times where we might work 2-person at a small school, where there's only one scoreboard on one side of the gym. In 2-person, the T has the last shot. But if play is at the side of the court opposite the clock, the T would have to turn their head completely around and away from the players to catch a glimpse of the clock. All the L would have to do is glance up with their eyes to catch the clock, and still keep their head facing the players. It's not "by the book", but it makes things easier for those rare instances. The pre-game is where that would be covered, so there aren't two people looking at the clock and no one watching the players...

[Adam]

I try to glance at the clock around 3 to 5 seconds and then listen for the horn. Like Rut, though, I'm not looking away from the play to watch the clock. If the horn isn't working, you'll know after the first quarter and can adjust from there. Usually, this amounts to nothing more than setting the horn to automatic.