3.1 to 2.0?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Howinthehell can it be an official's mistake if the timer never started the clock?

The clock should have started on the legal touching in-bounds by the Memphis player. It didn't. The officials corrected the timer's mistake. Period!

It can't.

I figured they would take at least .7 seconds off when I first saw the play (said that on the chat room). It didn't surprise me at all when they ended up taking 1.1 seconds off. Great call.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by DC_Ref12

Can someone please explain it to me?

Apparently no one can.

The clock never started.
The Whistle blew.
And 3.1 became a two.


Short of someone with a rulebook to explain, this appears to be a classic case of over-officiating.

[Kajun Ref N Texas]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Howinthehell can it be an official's mistake if the timer never started the clock?

The clock should have started on the legal touching in-bounds by the Memphis player. It didn't. The officials corrected the timer's mistake. Period!

So in correcting the timer's mistake, do the officials take the amount of time off the clock from the legal touching in-bounds to the whistle, or to the touching out of bounds, which was two different times and obviously an official's error.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

Apparently no one can.

The clock never started.
The Whistle blew.
And 3.1 became a two.


Short of someone with a rulebook to explain, this appears to be a classic case of over-officiating.

Jim, I kind of thought you were an idiot with your Oden post, now you've removed all doubt. Stick to softball fanboy...

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

Apparently no one can.

The clock never started.
The Whistle blew.
And 3.1 became a two.


Short of someone with a rulebook to explain, this appears to be a classic case of over-officiating.

Let's break this down for you piano man, nice & slow.

The ball was legally inbounded at 3.2 seconds. It touched a player B1 and then hit the court (that means it was still inbounds). The clock did not start. The ball then bounced high in the air and finally went OOB. No time came off the clock (that means 3.2 seconds still showed on the clock). NCAA rules allow the officials to use a monitor to fix timing errors. They used the monitor (and a stop watch I understand) to determine 1.1 seconds elapsed between the time the ball touched B1 and the time it went OOB.

Hopefully this clears it up for you and you can rest easy knowing that your team wasn't screwed.

[BoomerSooner]

I want to be clear, I don't have a problem with the outcome. As an OU fan I certainly wasn't wanting A&M to win. I just think there were a number of errors made on this play. In suggesting that it was an officials error, I was refering to the fact that as jkjenning pointed out, the T clearly signaled the ball OOB immediately after it hit the court. That is an officials error because the ball was not OOB at that point. Are we certain the clock didn't start? Considering that the NCAA uses precision timing, if the whistle was blown close enough to the starting of the clock it is possible that .05 seconds may have elapsed without the clock showing a change. I'm not one of those people that want to throw the official under the bus because of a late mistake that "cost the game". I've been the guy that got thrown under the bus for a late game snafu, by a fellow official working the game nonetheless (after reviewing the film, he apologized his rear-end off as I was right), so I certainly don't want to be the guy doing the throwing. I'm just saying that there are so many factors to be considered. Ultimately I don't think 1.1 seconds is too far from what was right had everything and everyone seen it perfectly. Unfortunately that isn't what happened so we must defer to the rules and how they say to handle the situation.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Kajun Ref N Texas

So in correcting the timer's mistake, do the officials take the amount of time off the clock from the legal touching in-bounds to the whistle, or to the touching out of bounds, which was two different times?

The whistle is not really relevant because the clock never started. A whistle is supposed to stop the clock, but whistles can be late also. You can't stop something that was never going in the first place.

The amount of time used, by rule, is the time lapsed from the ball being legally touched in-bounds by the Memphis player until the ball then touches something-anything-out of bounds. To try and get an accurate reading, they put the stopwatch on it-- clicked it on at the Memphis touch and then clicked it off when it touched something out of bounds. They probably did that several times to make sure that 1.1 seconds was a good, representative time. That's probably the only way that they can come up with a fairly accurate time. That's my take on it anyway.

Good job by the officials imo.

[Drizzle]

Originally Posted by BoomerSooner

Considering that the NCAA uses precision timing, if the whistle was blown close enough to the starting of the clock it is possible that .05 seconds may have elapsed without the clock showing a change.

They do not use the PT system during the tournament.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BoomerSooner

In suggesting that it was an officials error, I was refering to the fact that as jkjenning pointed out, the T clearly signaled the ball OOB immediately after it hit the court.

There's where we disagree. I thought that the T was pointing at the Memphis player to denote that the ball was last touched in-bounds by him. That's the mechanic that they were using the whole game. Point at the player that last touched the ball in-bounds and then give a direction signal.

[Kajun Ref N Texas]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The whistle is not really relevant because the clock never started. A whistle is supposed to stop the clock, but whistles can be late also. You can't stop something that was never going in the first place.

The amount of time used, by rule, is the time lapsed from the ball being legally touched in-bounds by the Memphis player until the ball then touches something-anything-out of bounds. To try and get an accurate reading, they put the stopwatch on it-- clicked it on at the Memphis touch and then clicked it off when it touched something out of bounds. They probably did that several times to make sure that 1.1 seconds was a good, representative time. That's probably the only way that they can come up with a fairly accurate time. That's my take on it anyway.

Good job by the officials imo.

I agree with the outcome. It seemed to me to be about a second between the legal touching inbounds and the touching OB.

With the early whistle, it could be construed that the T thought the ball went OB on the bounce inbounds thereby changing the timing issue.

[BoomerSooner]

Originally Posted by Drizzle

They do not use the PT system during the tournament.

I realize that I'm starting to get outlandish, but I'm trying to foster discussion (kinda devil's advocate kinda thing), but the timer could still have started and stopped the clock so quickly that no time change was shown. I've seen it done on clocks that show tenths of a second. I'm just saying.

[Kajun Ref N Texas]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

There's where we disagree. I thought that the T was pointing at the Memphis player to denote that the ball was last touched in-bounds by him. That's the mechanic that they were using the whole game. Point at the player that last touched the ball in-bounds and then give a direction signal.

Except that he blew his whistle before the ball hit OB.

Again, I think they got it right in the end.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by BoomerSooner

I realize that I'm starting to get outlandish, but I'm trying to foster discussion (kinda devil's advocate kinda thing), but the timer could still have started and stopped the clock so quickly that no time change was shown. I've seen it done on clocks that show tenths of a second. I'm just saying.

sigh.

The NCAA rules permit the officials to use the monitor to correct timing errors.

If they determined that 1.1 seconds should have come off when actually zero seconds came off that qualifies as a timing error.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Let's break this down for you piano man, nice & slow.

The ball was legally inbounded at 3.2 seconds. It touched a player B1 and then hit the court (that means it was still inbounds). The clock did not start. The ball then bounced high in the air and finally went OOB. No time came off the clock (that means 3.2 seconds still showed on the clock). NCAA rules allow the officials to use a monitor to fix timing errors. They used the monitor (and a stop watch I understand) to determine 1.1 seconds elapsed between the time the ball touched B1 and the time it went OOB.

Hopefully this clears it up for you and you can rest easy knowing that your team wasn't screwed.

Dan, a little testy?

I have no dog in the hunt.

We have your take on the call.

I asked for a rule book explanation.

Is there one? Can you cite it?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

Dan, a little testy?

I have no dog in the hunt.

We have your take on the call.

I asked for a rule book explanation.

Is there one? Can you cite it?

The ncaa rules are available on line. They are available to you for reference (hint search the pdf file for "monitor". If you get beyond rule 2 you've gone too far). I spent my time as research gofer in grad school, I don't think I'm ready to start that again for you, thank you very much for the offer.

Not testy at all. I don't care about your dogs or what they hunt.