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What if A1 (inbounding the ball) throws it toward A2 in As backcourt. B1, playing defense, bats the ball into As frontcourt and it is retrieved by B2....according to the other posts, no violation on B because they aren't penalized for their spot on the floor. If the reverse happens, inbounds to A2 in As frontcourt and batted to As backcourt and A2 retrieves? Some are saying that's a violation? These scenarios don't involve airborne players like this post started out but both are making point about how I think the inbounding portion of this rule means until their is team control....which maybe should be clarified in the rules/case book.
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OK, let me try and get this straight..we're back to airborne.
A1 inbounds to A2 who is in the frontcourt....A2 tips the ball toward the backcourt and A3 jumps from the frontcourt, catches the ball while airborne and lands in the backcourt....Since the inbound ended when A2 tipped the ball in the frontcourt then the ball has frontcourt status and A3 violated when he caught the ball as an airborne player and landed in the backcourt. I'm either way off or it still seems easy to me Whew.... 1. This will very seldom happen....but if it does... 2. I still have no team control (in my mind) on a tip, so I don't have a violation 3. I also have no status for the ball on a tip on an inbounds - FC or BC (IMHO) 4. This is only applying to a tip by the inbounding team also, right? and no, I'm not trying to be sarcastic or difficult ![]()
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Do you really think it matters, Eddy? Last edited by RushmoreRef; Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 01:23pm. |
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That's how the argument goes, yes. And, to clarify, this should be a violation on the "defense" if it's a violation on the "offense," because there's no defined "defense" if there's no team control.
Also, if A2 gains control of the ball and throws it before landing, then you'd have an easy violation on A3 once he lands in the BC. Likewise, if A2 gains control airborne under the allowance, he's allowed to land but he cannot pass to any teammate in the backcourt until he lands.
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You are saying the above is true or "true in the eyes of those who believe the provision ends when the throw in ends"...??? At least I now understand what you mean regarding the provisions ending...
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Regarding the first part of my post, it's true in the eyes of those who believe the provision ends when the throwin ends. It's not my opinion, though, so I could be presenting it incorrectly. Logically, however, I see their reasoning so I think I've got it right even though I disagree.
Regarding the second paragraph of my post (#32), that part is true by rule and not really disputed.
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I guess it's a topic that should be discussed and addressed in a case book play.
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Same with 4.12.6 - if the ball is tipped in the frontcourt, but recovered in the backcourt, no violation because there was no team control. I think I'm up in the air still. I may e-mail this one in to my interpreter for guidance.
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1) TC 2) Ball in FC 3) A last to toouch before ball goes to BC 4) A first to touch after ball goes to BC Exceptions for airborne players on defense, jump ball, throw-in. Quote:
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I like this post and my interpretation is a tip doesn't change the provision for an airborne player being able to obtain a throw-in, tipped or not and land in the backcourt without a violation..... If we did it with the other scenarios ...jump ball and a defensive player....a tip doesn't establish team control so why would it here? EX - A jump ball tapped by A1 is then tipped by A2 who is in As frontcourt and caught by airborne A3 (jumped from his frontcourt, catches in midair and lands in his backcourt)....no team control, the jumpball is over but no team control yet so no BC violation. Anyone disagree? There is frontcourt location in the above but no team control.
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Do you really think it matters, Eddy? Last edited by RushmoreRef; Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 02:50pm. |
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(And, your other post -- A1 inbounds to A2 who tips the ball to airborne A3 who gathers in the FC and lands in the BC -- is also a violation.) |
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So you think when an inbounds is over because of a tipped ball (by either an offensive or defensive player in that teams frontcourt) and if a player jumps from his frontcourt, catches the ball in the air (gets player/team control) and he lands in his backcourt it is a violation...right? Because you have both Frontcourt ball location and frontcourt player location! I have to agree here I guess.... Keys are: 1. tip in frontcourt that establishes ball location. 2. airborne player jumping from his frontcourt and securing ball in the air to establish team/player control. 3. landing in the backcourt with the ball or throwing it to another teammate in the backcourt.. OK then...
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Would you have to determine if the second tip to the airborne player is a controlled tip? Thus establishing the TC portion of the requirements. I am looking at it as more of an attempt to catch the ball but having it deflect (tip) off the fingers for no control. So many posts saying so many things, I thought had this cold but now .... ![]()
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