This is the damage the kool-aide is doing to you. It causes your one-track mind to lock-up on one subject, and everything that is being discussed from this point on is about this one subject. Okay, I'm going to try this real slow for you mentally challenged, it's all about me forum members.

Time and distance is very important to officiating the game of basketball. Hence, I am not talking about establishing LGP. Maybe I better say that again for the kool-aide drinkers. I am not talking about establishing LGP. You need to get to the proper area on the court to be able to correctly referee any play. Time and distance is of immense importance to this. There is a term in officiating we call straight-line (SL) and if you don't know what it is, look it up. You need to be in a position to see both players. If you are SL, it will take some time to get to the proper distance you need to be at to properly referee the play. If something happens while you are in transition to get to this point, it is very likely, you may miss it.

In this play, if I am standing where the camera angle is, I have a great position to view this play. I can see both players. If, I'm on the other side as the Lead, I need to come over to view this play. While I'm in transition, I won't have the same angle as if I was standing on the other side to begin with. Without being able to see the entire play, my call may not be as accurate. If someone tries to tells you there is only TWO things to consider in a block charge play. Don't believe them. They may also try to get you to drink some kool-aide. Don't do it, run away from them the first chance you get!

Again, as many others have tried to tell you, time and distance have nothing to do with this play - stop trying to use that argument to justify making bad calls...secondly, this was in transition - or for a non-basketball type like you, it was a fast break...there is no way that the Lead could have gotten across the court in time to "get a better angle" as you put it...the angle the Lead had was a fine angle to see if the defender had established LGP and took the blow to the torso - which is what happened and the Lead made a great call...

As stated in an earlier post, the L didn't make the call, the C did, you can see by the players' reactions...which is exactly how it should have been done considering court coverage...I think he probably had a good angle to see the play......

I will agree that the L would have had a hard time seeing through the defense and if he would have been forced to make the call (no whistle from center) then it would have been a little bit of a guess since he couldn't see between the players.

I understand that the C made the call on the play in the video - I was just responding to OS'c continual drivel...but for you, RR, I would ask "Why does the L need to see BETWEEN the players to make a PC/block call?" on this play...he/she can see that the defender had LGP and took the blow directly in the torso, so why does he/she need to see between them to make that call?

In officiating, the words "time and distance" as a phrase never, never, never refer to where or when or how the official is seeing the play. "Time and distance" are used to talk about screening or guarding an opponent without the ball. Period. Do not ever use those words as a phrase in any other context.

You SHOULD be talking about establishing LGP. It's the only criteria by which to judge this play. The bang-bang block/charge play depends only on LGP.

In this play, the camera angle represents a very bad view. First, it's too close. Second, it's impossible to tell when the defender establishes LGP, since the motion is directly toward the camera. When I first posted that the lead had a better look, I hadn't relized that this was 3-whistle. I now agree with Rushmore and others that point out that the C had the best look. Even so, the lead has a better look than the camera.

And believe you instead, in referring to concepts and philosophies that have nothing to do with any recognized officiating guidelines? No thanks.

PS please stop with the kool aid discussion. It gives you no credibility.

If lead felt he/she needed to make this call, he/she would need to see enough between to see that the defender had arms clearly straight up, or straight out. In the OP, that's pretty obvious, but in a simliar play where the defender's hands might not be in view from behind, ref wouldn't know if there was some hand action prior to the torso contact.

True...but in this play on the video??? L could certainly have made that call without having to see between the players...that's a great rule of thumb (being able to see between), but it is by no means an absolute and this video gives a very clear picture of an instance when there is no need to see between...

Kinda what I was going to say too....if you notice the clip, the ball never left A1's hand (because he elected not to shoot for some reason) but the L would have had a hard time seeing that.....also if there was a significant "flop" it would have been hard for the L to see that from across the lane....My point is and I've said it in othe posts.....the only call the L could have had was a "charge" which would have been right and he would have had to have something, there's no way that's a no call, but he wouldn't have had the look that I'd like to have to make a call like that.

I'm not arguing the fact that he wold have called "charge".... but I don't think it would have been a call that had all the info needed, it would have been a "looks like a charge" call.....we know that we all have made these calls and I'm not saying that's wrong...what I am saying is the C did a great job of hustling and having a whistle so the L didn't have to make it from across the lane, a call that they don't want you to make in a 3-person crew.

You were saying time and distance made this call easier for you. Everyone here knows you were talking about the time and distance between the two players, not the time it takes for the official to get into position. You can change what you're saying now, but you can't change history by stating the obvious (that it takes time for an official to move a certain distance.)

Whether you can see it or not has no bearing on what the correct call is and is completely irrelevant to this discussion.

I'm shocked that OS can't bypass the laws of physics. He ignores other rules as he sees fit.

Soooooo.....

It comes down to whether you believe RecLeague Ronnie or the rule book. The rule book says:
<b>NFHS Rule 4-23-4</b>--<i>"Guarding an opponent <b>with the ball</b> or a stationary opponent, <b>NO</b> time or distance is required to obtain an initial <b>legal</b> position."</i>

Note that the rule says <b>"an initial legal position"</b>.

Iow, <b>everything</b> written above by TrollBoy is his usual pile of unintelligable, misleading, steaming crap.

Ignore. It's just another tie for the dumbest post ever made on this forum.

Old School:

Yes I do take offense when you do not use correct terminology. When one does not use the correct language of his profession or in our case avocation, it causes the people who read his posts to think one of two things: 1) He does not pay attention to detail; or 2) He does not know his subject matter. In your case it is almost 100% the latter.

MTD, Sr.

Old School:

Yes, officials should not get straight lined. Yes, officials should work to get good angles to see the whole play. And if you remember one of my posts from the now closed infamous thread, I said the officials must also utilize two V's of visioin: a horizontal V and a vertical V.

And what are the TWO things that only need to be considered in a block/charge play? Please enlighten the group.

MTD, Sr.

Those aren't mutually exclusive items. So, Old School is also 100% the former. That give him 200% -- he's twice the referee Jon Diebler ever was.