Should a state association accomodate a religious school for the playoffs?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Nobody observes the Sabbath on Sunday. The Sabbath, by definition, is the last day of the week when God rested after creation. It's Saturday, specifically sunset Friday through sunset Saturday.

Christians who "rest" on Sunday observe "the Lord's day" because it's the day that Jesus rose from the dead.

Semantics. This is the Jewish (as well as some Christian sects', such as Seventh Day Adventists) definition. It's probably more correct, historically. However, many Christians do observe the Sabbath on Sunday as a matter of practice. That's why many businesses are closed (Hobby Lobby and Chick Filet for example), most high school associations don't play games on Sundays, and some states prohibit alcohol sales on Sunday.
While most don't observe this as a hard and fast rule, many do.

[M&M Guy]

Where is playing basketball, on your terms, a "right"? Isn't basketball still an extracirricular activity? If children are forced to go to school, then they shouldn't also be forced to do things in school contrary to their established religion. But children, and schools, are not forced to play basketball. It is a voluntary activity, so the participants should be bound by the rules of the activity. Should the OSAA, and the NCAA, make a reasonable attempt to accommodate the schools involved? Sure. Should they be forced to in court? Of course not.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Where is playing basketball, on your terms, a "right"? Isn't basketball still an extracirricular activity? If children are forced to go to school, then they shouldn't also be forced to do things in school contrary to their established religion. But children, and schools, are not forced to play basketball. It is a voluntary activity, so the participants should be bound by the rules of the activity. Should the OSAA, and the NCAA, make a reasonable attempt to accommodate the schools involved? Sure. Should they be forced to in court? Of course not.

The problem is, they already make a lot of accomodations as it is. Why don't they play on Sunday now? Try scheduling hs basketball games on sunday and see what happens. Some states may do this already, I don't know, but I know the two I'm familiar with don't and you'd see major bellyaching if they tried to change that.
In a sense, they're already making religious accomodation for the majority.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Semantics.

I respectfully disagree. It's a matter of definition. If I say, "I'm a bachelor" and you say, "No, you're not. You're married," I can't say, "Ah, that's just semantics". This is the same thing. The Sabbath is Saturday, the last day of the week because that's when God rested. That's the definition of "Sabbath". You can't just say it's Sunday because that's when Christians go to church.

However, many Christians do observe the Sabbath on Sunday as a matter of practice.

No, they don't. They observe the Lord's Day on Sunday to commemorate Jesus' resurrection.

You can't open presents on October 31st and call it Christmas. You can open presents on October 31st, sure. But that doesn't make it Christmas. And you can rest on Sunday. But that doesn't make it the Sabbath.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The problem is, they already make a lot of accomodations as it is. Why don't they play on Sunday now?

How much of it is real religion, and how much is societal? Maybe that is the origin, but I would think many people consider Sunday a normal day off, not a religious day off.

Actually, I would think many of the concerns regarding tournaments is much more logistical than anything else. Many of these tournaments have been planned out months in advance - venues rented, hotel rooms reserved, staff hired, and so on. What if the venue being used is already booked for a concert on Sunday? What if half the concession stand workers can't change their schedules and be there on Sunday instead of Saturday? There are a lot of details involved, which would make it hard to just change a date of a game to accomodate one or two possible participants.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The problem is, they already make a lot of accomodations as it is. Why don't they play on Sunday now? Try scheduling hs basketball games on sunday and see what happens. Some states may do this already, I don't know, but I know the two I'm familiar with don't and you'd see major bellyaching if they tried to change that.
In a sense, they're already making religious accomodation for the majority.

And a large majority of the people belly-aching about that possible change would not be doing so out of religious principles, but out of "that's the way it's always been ,why are you changing it" principles...

As others have said, make the accomodations if it isn't a hardship on others, but don't trample on someone else in order to serve the athletes at Portland Adventist or Portland Episcopal or Central Catholic or Damascus Christian or etc., etc...can I see moving the State Championship game from 8:00 Saturday until 5:00 and then playing the possible Portland Adventist consolation game at 8:00?? Sure...but telling a team we will postpone Saturday's Championship game until Sunday or Monday to accomodate Portland Adventist, thus causing the other team to have to spend more nights in a hotel and spend more $$$ - no way. That's not right...

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I respectfully disagree. It's a matter of definition. If I say, "I'm a bachelor" and you say, "No, you're not. You're married," I can't say, "Ah, that's just semantics". This is the same thing. The Sabbath is Saturday, the last day of the week because that's when God rested. That's the definition of "Sabbath". You can't just say it's Sunday because that's when Christians go to church.

You're making a theological distinction that I happen to agree with. However, if you asked which day is the Sabbath, many (I'd venture to say most) Christians would answer "Sunday." Christmas is only 12-25 because that's when most people celebrate. If we wanted to change it to 10-31 and got people to sign on, we absolutely would call it that.

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

No, they don't. They observe the Lord's Day on Sunday to commemorate Jesus' resurrection.

Again, you're making a theological distinction I happen to agree with. However, as it pertains to popular usage....

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

You can't open presents on October 31st and call it Christmas. You can open presents on October 31st, sure. But that doesn't make it Christmas. And you can rest on Sunday. But that doesn't make it the Sabbath.

True enough, but it doesn't mean these folks aren't observing the Sabbath that way. How often have you opened Christmas presents on 12-24? My family has gotten together the first week of January on occasion to celebrate Christmas (to include opening presents).
There are, most years, two official Easter Sundays. Which one is correct? Do we really know which day of the week God rested? No, of course not.

[Scrapper1]

Just to keep this (slightly) connected to basketball. . .

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

if you asked which day is the Sabbath, many (I'd venture to say most) Christians would answer "Sunday."

And if you asked what the signal for "over the back" is, many if not most coaches would give you the Frankenstein (or whatever it was called recently).

The fact that most Christians don't really understand the details of their religion is no reason to perpetuate the incorrect "normal usage".

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

No, they don't. They observe the Lord's Day on Sunday to commemorate Jesus' resurrection.

Is that where He rolls the rock away from inside his cave on Easter Monday? And He steps outside to the awe and amazement of the gathered masses? And if He then sees his shadow, we get six more weeks of winter?

Huh, huh?

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The NCAA specifically accomodates BYU by placing them in a bracket which plays on Thursday and Saturday, not Friday and Sunday in the basketball tournaments.

This is true. I understand there are also a couple of other schools like that too. But perhaps you don't hear about them because they're not quite as successful?

Rise and shout!

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Is that where He rolls the rock away from inside his cave on Easter Monday? And He steps outside to the awe and amazement of the gathered masses? And if He then sees his shadow, we get six more weeks of winter?

I really hope you like the smell of brimstone

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I really hope you like the smell of brimstone

At his age, anything that promises he'll be warm forever, is a good thing

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

You can't open presents on October 31st and call it Christmas.

Sure you can because Oct 31 = Dec 25

Let's keep the rest of the religious stuff off the board, lest this turn into a discussion similar to those surrounding race. Suffice it to say that, for whatever reason, BYU (and other institutions / states, etc.) chooses not to play on Sundays.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Sure you can because Oct 31 = Dec 25

Ummm, no it doesn't.

Let's keep the rest of the religious stuff off the board, lest this turn into a discussion similar to those surrounding race.

I have no problem with that, Bob. I was not intending to do anything other than point out the incorrect usage of the word "Sabboth". I didn't mean to get into religion at all, just linguistics.

[Adam]

For a moment, I was getting caught up in connecting the theological debate over the rightful Sabbath Day with the basketball issue at hand. Then I realized this is off topic because the group that wants the accomodation is actually one of the few who recognize the Sabbath as Saturday rather than Sunday.