Would you have T ed ?

[Old School]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Just before halftime a visiting player is fouled, and as she falls to the floor, is injured, enough to bekon the coach onto the court. He comes onto the court with his trainer. The trainer tends to the injured player. The coach "tends to us" and takes this opportunity to complain to both of us that we're not calling enough fouls, we're doing a terrible job, etc. We move away from him, and he proceeds to follow us, so we move farther away. This behavior would have and should have deserved a technical foul under any other circumstance, but my partner and I discussed it a decided that we did not want to make a big deal and call a technical foul while the the player was still in pain on the floor, making every one believe that we were more concerned about the coach than the player's painful injury,

#1.) This is ridiculous. Wait until they get the player off the floor and you are ready to continue the game. Then you give the coach the T. Otherwise, I have to believe the coach is right and you guys where doing a bad job. I say this because of your reluctance to check the coach. I can't believe you didn't say to the coach to go tend to your player while he was complaining, right now, she is more important. If he continues, just say okay coach, you can continue to talk but that's going to cost you a T.

The difference with your analogy and the OP is that the coach made one comment and it was over. He did not continue to follow the guys around. This is not the same circumstance at all. You should feel bad you didn't give out a well deserved T.

[BillyMac]

From Old School: "You should feel bad you didn't give out a well deserved T."

From BillyMac: "We missed our chance. I learned from that expereience. It will never happen again."

Old School: Just what part of "We missed our chance. I learned from that expereience. It will never happen again.", did you not understand. I'm a brother official. Why would you want to pile it on?

From Old School: "I have to believe the coach is right and you guys where doing a bad job."

Old School: The only information you have about this game is that the coach's conduct deserved a technical foul, that we chose, incorrectly, not to give a technical foul, and from that you deduce that we were doing a bad job. It sounds like you're putting more weight on the coaches unsporting conduct then on our poor decision to not give a technical foul. There are no perfect officials. I'm sure that, like all officials, we missed some calls in that game, but the only real bad call that we made in that game was to wait to give a technical foul.

From Tri-City (Washington State) Officials Association (As posted on this Forum): "The technical foul is given ... if giving a technical will help give structure back to the game and if it will have a calming effect on things."

From BillyMac: "The coach never said "boo" the entire second half."

Old School: Even though I still believe that we were wrong to not give a technical foul in this situation, we didn't give a technical foul and the game improved and the coach calmed down, which according to some sources, is a good reason to give a technical foul. Bottom line: We incorrectly chose not to give a technical foul, but it still worked out in the end, the game improved and the coach calmed down.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The only information you have about this game is that the coach's conduct deserved a technical foul, that we chose, incorrectly, not to give a technical foul, and from that you deduce that we were doing a bad job. It sounds like you're putting more weight on the coaches unsporting conduct then on our poor decision to not give a technical foul.

I deducted that if the coach attacked you and you retreated that in your mind, you felt he was right. My reason for piling on was to shock you into never letting that happen again, and I followed that up with a couple of examples. Saying it and doing it is two different things.

One more thing, I thought that was good character not wanting to give a T while the girl was laying hurt on the floor. These things can't be taught or learned from a rulebook. I respect that because most of the guys on this forum would have gone into it's all about me mode. Just remember this, you don't have to show the T sign to give a technical. Walk over to the table when you are about ready to start and tell the table we have a technical foul on the coach for constant complaining. Notify both benches, get you a shooter and continue on. You can low-key the event.

Sorry for piling on, thanks for sharing.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I'm a brother official. Why would you want to pile it on?

You assume OS is an official. Not everyone here subscribes to that theory.
I'm just saying.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You assume OS is an official. Not everyone here subscribes to that theory.
I'm just saying.

No, you're just hating....

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

No, you're just hating....

Naw, it's not hating.It's just kinda hard to take anyone seriously who professes to be an official but never has owned a rule book. That would be like me claiming to be a nuclear physicist because I watch the Science channel.

[Junker]

I think the worst thing an official can do to other officials is not give the T when warranted. The T in the OP was an obvious one. You have to call it. The fact that a player is hurt doesn't matter, this stuff about a coach clinging to a job should not enter our mind (I don't know where that came in). If a coach deserves it, give it. The coach is called out to attend to the player, not to complain to the officials. When officials don't sack up and take care of business it sends the message to that coach or player that their behavior is acceptable. My one regret this season is that I let a coach stick around in a game when I should have given his second and tossed him. I regret it because rather than have to sit out and not be a jerk to the next crew in, he got to coach.

[cmathews]

Originally Posted by Old School

I deducted ..............

did you run this by your accountant first, and how much is this particular deduction?? I deduce from your post that the money was just piling up

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Naw, it's not hating.It's just kinda hard to take anyone seriously who professes to be an official but never has owned a rule book. That would be like me claiming to be a nuclear physicist because I watch the Science channel.

More propaganda from the almighty one.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Old School

More propaganda from the almighty one.

Well, everytime he brings it up, all you can do is call him names and say big words like "propaganda". How about addressing it directly; a simple 'yes' or 'no' answer will do:

Do you currently have a copy of the NFHS rule book and case book?

A (real) wise man once said: "It is better for one to remain silent and have people think they're the fool, rather than open one's mouth and remove all doubt."

Don't shoot the messenger.

Have a nice day.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Well, everytime he brings it up, all you can do is call him names and say big words like "propaganda". How about addressing it directly; a simple 'yes' or 'no' answer will do:

Do you currently have a copy of the NFHS rule book and case book?

A (real) wise man once said: "It is better for one to remain silent and have people think they're the fool, rather than open one's mouth and remove all doubt."

If you where a real referee, you wouldn't have to ask such a dumb question.

Let's quite BS'ing each other and get down to the real issue. The true question is not whether I have a rule book (hence propaganda) or not, the question is whether or not I'm a real official. A very wise artist once said, if you don't know me by now (after 400+ posts), you will never never never know me. I would be impressed if you knew off the top who sang that.

So the true ?? is, do you believe I'm an official? The answer is entirely up to you. Do I believe you are a real official? It doesn't matter to me. I will respect you as long as you are respectful of me. However, once you crossed that proverbial line, there is no going back.

[Adam]

Now, we have to think about how we define "real official." If it's just someone who owns a striped shirt, whistle, and black shorts, then it doesn't matter.

If it is someone who actually belongs to an organization of officials (peers who train and teach and hold each other accountable), who studies the rules in an effort to better understand them and to better apply them to games, and who actually cares about the game itself instead of the check; well, then let's just say there are quite a few refs that don't qualify.

I'm certain that M&M, however, does qualify.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Old School

If you where a real referee, you wouldn't have to ask such a dumb question.

Let's quite BS'ing each other and get down to the real issue. The true question is not whether I have a rule book (hence propaganda) or not, the question is whether or not I'm a real official. A very wise artist once said, if you don't know me by now (after 400+ posts), you will never never never know me. I would be impressed if you knew off the top who sang that.

So the true ?? is, do you believe I'm an official? The answer is entirely up to you. Do I believe you are a real official? It doesn't matter to me. I will respect you as long as you are respectful of me. However, once you crossed that proverbial line, there is no going back.

Unfortunately, the question isn't as dumb as the answer.

You have, by so obviously avoiding answering a simple, direct question, actually showed your lack of respect for me. You want me to stop BS'ing you, however, that is all you to to any of us that ask you direct questions.

I now have no doubt you have outright lied when you answered my question about what levels you have officiated. I now have no doubt JR is absolutely correct when he says you do not have, or have even seen, an NFHS rule book. Many actual officials can see through the facade, even inexperienced ones. Most of us that post on this forum try to help our avocation by teaching others less experienced than us. I still learn things from people more experienced than me. But we will continue to point out your obvious mis-statements and bad advice. You certainly have a right to your opinion. Likewise, we have a right to ours. If you don't like it, feel free to go elsewhere.

Btw, who the hell cares if I know about Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes?

[worldbefree]

Old School is most likely a "real official". That doesn't mean he has to be a good official or even know what he is talking about. He is the type of official he always talks about not wanting to work with again. Only in this case you wouldn't want to work with him the first time. Let's also be clear that just because an official owns a rule book, doesn't mean they understand what is in it. We have all worked with guys who have been around long enough that they "know" the game, and don't need the book. And there are also those officials who can't quite conprehend what the rule book says. The book only gives you the rules, it doesn't go out on the floor with you and help you apply them. So with that, we should allow Old School to say he's a "real official" but all hope that none of us ever has to work with him.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Old School

A very wise artist once said, if you don't know me by now (after 400+ posts), you will never never never know me. I would be impressed if you knew off the top who sang that.

Harold Melvin and the Bluenotes (Teddy P. singing lead).

Decent remake by Simply Red in the 90's.