Chants coming to an end?

[blindmanwalking]

Originally Posted by j51969

On the serious side I understand what your getting at, really. However, stopping the game until the behavior stops? Some rivalry games will be a lesson in attrition. If they want to police there kids and set a example for others while the game continues, great! In life someone is always trying to knock you down with there words and actions. A lesson in thick skin and striving through adversity isn't so bad for a high school basketball player. Or anyone for that matter.

High school kids should not have to deal with personal insults/attacks while playing a game. If it isn't stopped or controlled, it will only get worse. I really don't pay much attention to fans when they are talking to me, but if they start on a player, I'm listening. They will be removed if it gets personal.

[j51969]

I have no problem with some AD removing an abusive fan. But I don't think it has anything to do with us. If the AD or whoever is at the gym wants to punt some kid, who cares. This kind of behavior had been going on since before I was in high school (I'm 38). If it was going to get worse, like some basketball game in Serbia where fans set the gym on fire. I think it would have already happend. A noble cause, I just don't see what the expected end result is.

[JRutledge]

Booing is not a personal insult. It is showing displeasure for an event or series of events. I have no problem if fans (which can be students, parents, alumni and townies) booing me as an official or even a player. I do have a problem if there is a chant about someone personally where there is something about their condition or family member. I do not expect a school to have total control over the collective behavior of fans as it relates to booing. I do expect something to be done with chants and things that can be insightful to an individual or a crowd. I know when I worked my games this past week many insults were thrown at me. Now I can handle that personally and I know it comes with the territory. I have no problem with getting rid of people that get out of line, but you are not going to stop collectively thousands for comments. Even when I have attended the Big Ten Tournament, is extremely rare you hear any comments that are vulgar and completely inappropriate. I remember a few years ago when the tournament was in Indy, and I was sitting in the Iowa section for the championship game. There was a guy using profanity while yelling at the referees. A couple of guys turned around and told the guy to knock it off and the guy stopped completely. I was amazed how cooperative this guy was to the request of fans. There was also security available if there was anything that got out of hand. You do not need a policy like this to encourage good behavior. You just need to get rid of the clowns that think they can say anything without penalty.

Peace

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You do not need a policy like this to encourage good behavior. You just need to get rid of the clowns that think they can say anything without penalty.

Sadly, in the institutionalized world of education, with the threat of lawsuits on every hand for any act that could be regarded as disciplining Little Johnny, the lack of a policy can make a big difference. If left to their own devices, some administrators already do an admirable job of policing their crowds. And some do not. The creation of a policy will empower, even encourage some of the slackers to take care of business. But, of course, it will not solve the problem entirely.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Sadly, in the institutionalized world of education, with the threat of lawsuits on every hand for any act that could be regarded as disciplining Little Johnny, the lack of a policy can make a big difference. If left to their own devices, some administrators already do an admirable job of policing their crowds. And some do not. The creation of a policy will empower, even encourage some of the slackers to take care of business. But, of course, it will not solve the problem entirely.

Yes, but it will help to keep it at bay, especially for what you call the slackers. Remember, this is a race. We are trying to stay one step ahead of the people who insist on being idiots. The idiots are trying to find what they can do that is within the rules, which goes to your point about disciplining Johnny. Too often our society doesn't consider anything a problem until someone has either gotten hurt or killed. Then everyone is ready to act. I say nip it in the bud right now before an accident happens.

As far as the problem being solved entirely. That is not the job or responsibility of basketball. We are only concerned about what takes place at our games. What you do or say once the game is over and you are off the school grounds becomes the problem of the state.

[Ref in PA]

Since I have become a "patched" basketball official in PA, there have been two times when the gym has been cleared except for the players and coaches. The teams were rivals and fights occurred at the game between fans. The teams played their games without fans the following year. This sent a message to the fans in my opinion and they have behaved in subsequent years. There will probably be more incidents in the future between rival schools but in the mean time this has controled the problem.

Barring fans sends a message on a couple of different levels. The community, parents, students all get the message. A financial message is also sent - no revenue from gate or concessions.

In the case of Washington state, the judgement of fan behavior will be highly subjective. And should they censure fans at contests because of questionable fan behavior, Washington would need consistancy among those judging the behavior. Achieving that consistancy will be no small task.

[REFVA]

High school kids should not have to deal with personal insults/attacks while playing a game. If it isn't stopped or controlled, it will only get worse. I really don't pay much attention to fans when they are talking to me, but if they start on a player, I'm listening. They will be removed if it gets personal.

society in general is at fault here we have lost our vaules. Administartion, Parents, Coaches and the players themselves. i did a middle school game last night and in one section I heard all kinds of curse and harsh word being screamed out and I did see any level of control from the school administration. I actually truned my head to see when the screaming came from and the whole section started to laugh at me becuase I was shocked with the words being screamed. Geuss what, there were parents, and young ladies there and it didn't matter. Either the admin was scared or didn't care.

[rockyroad]

There was already a thread on this topic...read some of the comments there...WIAA to ban booing at HS games in Wa State?

[Mark Padgett]

I wonder what those rulemakers would have thought about a sign I saw in the stands at a televised USC - UCLA game a few years back? A UCLA student's sign read "Flush Used Trojans".

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

I wonder what those rulemakers would have thought about a sign I saw in the stands at a televised USC - UCLA game a few years back? A UCLA student's sign read "Flush Used Trojans".

Or the t-shirts worn at an Oregon - Washington football game years back...they said "Huck the Fuskies"...

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Or the t-shirts worn at an Oregon - Washington football game years back...they said "Huck the Fuskies"...

Not any different than t-shirts seen in Ohio and Illinois: Muck Fichigan.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Ref in PA

Since I have become a "patched" basketball official in PA, there have been two times when the gym has been cleared except for the players and coaches. The teams were rivals and fights occurred at the game between fans. The teams played their games without fans the following year. This sent a message to the fans in my opinion and they have behaved in subsequent years. There will probably be more incidents in the future between rival schools but in the mean time this has controled the problem.

Barring fans sends a message on a couple of different levels. The community, parents, students all get the message. A financial message is also sent - no revenue from gate or concessions.

Clearing the stands has always been an option for officials, but it seems like it is only supported if you got a riot breaking out. How much of this behavior is something that the officials has jurisdiction over? IOW, at what point can we step in and say no more? If we are looking at no man's land here, then this problem is only going to get much worse. What I mean by no man's land is if I, the official go to the school manager and say these fans are out of control and I'm stopping the game because I want those guys out, the whole section, and the administrator says I don't have the authority to do that, and none of the other officials that have worked here has had a problem with it. Now I got to let it go and probably have ruined my chances of working in that gym again. No official is going to want to touch that! No man's land and the fans know it.

To the posters that think our society caters too much to the minority or insignificant issues. On this particular issue I have to disagree. Now removing the Easter Bunny from the government building. Yes, that trivial. This problem, is a problem that's only going to get worse. For some reason that I have not been able to figure out, our society likes to one up the other, which cause more and more extreme behavior and actions. For ex: Janet wardrobe malfunction. Washington is being proactive to the problem. What I'm saying is they are attempting to do something about it before it reaches a crisis situation.

Actually, and you guys are probably going to disagree with me on this, but I think the NFHS needs to fix this. They have the authority to mandate that such chants, and other actions by followers not be allowed in their games. Not just put the onus on the officials either, but also of the school administration, especially if it's own students are doing this. Even if it's not the home team fans, this will not be tolerated. If we get it from the Fed. then it's across the board and Washington and other states don't have to have special laws in there books to legislate, imho.