Why I hate Rec league

[fonzzy07]

So being young I decided to pick up some extra cash 25 a game, pick up a 5th grade girls, easy right. Well the assignor did not tell me I would be working with a first year ref. Well things explode after the game. I will include my report I sent the assignor tell me what you thing the penalty should be for this assistant.

Note I am changing team names along with coaches names:

Please consider this my game report.
Game was Team A V Team B 5th grade A
division (Both teams from the same school) The Head coach of the team
causing problems is Coach, (Coach's daughter and son
worked the table the next set of games, and claimed
the assistant was CoachA, but this is second hand
knowledge and may be wrong.)

The game went well until the very end. with just about
a minute left in the game, game was tied. Body's team decides they
want to role the ball down to the mid-court line to
save time ( the other team showed no sign of pressing)
I administered the ball and she rolled it on the line.
I blew my whistle and signaled the other way due to
the violation. As I was turning around out of the
corner of my eye I see 31 from Coach's team throw the
ball very hard at my feet in an obvious manner as a
way of saying I am upset. I gave out a T, no question
in my mind she deserved it in fact the players father
came up after the game, asked what she got the T for
and when I explained he said nothing. I then hear
Coach Body yelling and making a scene about it
including the words " that is ridiculous." I gave him
a T and things settled down. The opposing team
attempted the 4 shots and then was given the ball at
the mid-court line. They eventually loose the ball out
of bounds under there basket. I then take my place at the mid-court line
for the throw in and my rookie partner administers the
throw in. As I am watching I watch Coach's team again
roll the ball over the line. I whistle and signal the
other way. CoachA makes a little noise but thats about it.( as I do with all of
the rookies I work with I follow the ball most of the
time and am out of my " zone" most of the time.) The game then ended. Before even going over to shake the other teams hand CoachA came over to yell at me. He finally left and
shook the other teams hands,( at this time I had a hunch he was comming back and told the table personell to listen in and take notes of what he said, I also told my rookie partner not to say anything and to just stand behind me( I did not want her to have to be envolved in this) and then he returned to me. He continually asked for my name and I showed it to
him on the score sheet. He then said he was going to
call my assignor and report me. This was not the end of it. He
then felt that he needed to chew me out. He opened by
saying in 40 years of basketball he had never yelled
at an offical or had ever been so disgusted. He then
followed this by saying "that I should hang up my
shirt and whistle and coach lacrosse" He continued to
ramble on and I tried to ignore him. I never said a
word to him. He then said that I was a disgrace to the
game of basketball and to officials. He then tried to
get me to say from which parish I went to church ( this
seems odd since it was a game between the same parish) I never gave
him an answer as I did not wish to speak to him since
he was so out of control. After his arguing for a few
minutes I became a little uncomfortable as to what
would come next as he showed no signs of cooling off
and I called the assignor on his cell phone. He told me that he
was only a few minutes out, had a few moments before
his next game and would be over. I then told the
Coach A and he left me alone ( at this point the head coach who was listining in, and who never said a word left and was never seen again. When the assignor showed up CoachA was there to meet him and after what looked like exchanging a few words with him both coachA
and my asssignor approached me. I then told my assignor the entire
situation with the coach there and besides trying to
make me tell certain details, which i did for everyone
he asked. He never disagreed with what I had to say nor that the call was wrong, he was still upset that I called in my partners area.
my assingor finally told him to leave the gym immediately.

It was a crazy game. If your are from the STL area and want specifics about the assignor and stuff it makes the story better, just pm me.

[ref18]

I'm confused, can you elaborate a bit more about the violation for "rolling the ball over the line"??

What line was this? Just so I can visually picture what happened. Right now I'm assuming it rolled over an out of bounds line.

[fonzzy07]

Originally Posted by ref18

I'm confused, can you elaborate a bit more about the violation for "rolling the ball over the line"??

What line was this? Just so I can visually picture what happened. Right now I'm assuming it rolled over an out of bounds line.

Sorry it is vague I shouldcahnge this before i send this off. It was the baseline. He steped back to the wall and rolled it like a bowling ball, so it rolled over the baseline.( It touched the line)
He did this because the other team was not pressing and he didn't trust his girls arm strenght and thus he would roll it to midcourt and then his player would touch it, it would save him time.

Edited to add on.

[ref18]

Originally Posted by fonzzy07

Sorry it is vague I shouldcahnge this before i send this off. It was the baseline. He steped back to the wall and rolled it like a bowling ball, so it rolled over the baseline.

Well the second time it happened, if I were you, I wouldn't have even contemplated putting air in the whistle. That's your partner's call, and you're in no position to make it standing at half court.

You shouldn't even be watching the ball or the thrower, if both of you have your attention on the thrower, and B-4 gives and uppercut to A-4 who's going to see it?

Other than that, some coaches are ***-holes, and you gotta deal with them, if you think they went way over the line, send a report through your association.

I know that unless I do something wrong, I've got the full backing of my association, when the SHTF.


Edited to Add:
A few more things, when someone decides they're going to chew me out after a game, I walk away, don't give them a chance to chew you out, and definitely never call the assignor from the gym. If he's that serious about it, he'll file a report. This isn't something you need to drag the assignor into right then and there.

I've had situations where an irate fan/coach/parent has come up to me after a game asking for a word with me. I give them a simple answer of "No!", then take notice of the bewildered look on their face as I head for the safe haven of the referee's room.

[fonzzy07]

Originally Posted by ref18

Well the second time it happened, if I were you, I wouldn't have even contemplated putting air in the whistle. That's your partner's call, and you're in no position to make it standing at half court.

You shouldn't even be watching the ball or the thrower, if both of you have your attention on the thrower, and B-4 gives and uppercut to A-4 who's going to see it?

Other than that, some coaches are ***-holes, and you gotta deal with them, if you think they went way over the line, send a report through your association.

I know that unless I do something wrong, I've got the full backing of my association, when the SHTF.

First off I respect your opinion however in the rec leagues around here when we work with rookies we are told to look at things like this( my rookie was a freshman in HS) so that we catch things they miss, then we tell them these things and they learn is the idea, my assignor had no problem with me looking there and when I did confer with my partner she said it did touch she just STILL did not realize it wasn't allowed. This is gonna go to the leauge however if you were the league director what punishment would you give
Edited to add due to the previous edit: there was no ref room, we were stuck in a gym I figured the best place to go was the table, thats where the most of us were.
I never asked my assignor to the gym, I called him per his wish to inform him that a coach would not let the game end. He decided to come on his own.
It did not matter what I said to this guy he wanted to argue thats why I said nothing. What good would a No have doen.

[ref18]

I've edited my previous post to stick a few more points into it.

But regardless, I believe that line violations are something that we either live or die by as individuals, not as crews. Even when I was a rookie back in my freshman year of high school, my partners wouldn't call on my lines when teaching me, but if I missed something like that it was definitely brought up in the post game as something I should look for next time. Being overruled on your own line does nothing to help your confidence as a new official. Even now with 6 years experience under my belt, I still work with officials who feel they have a duty to call in my area, and stuff like that, and it pisses the hell out of me.

There's nothing I hate more than someone calling some contact right in front of me that I judged to be incidental and to not have caused an advantage. And while I won't say anything on the court when it happens, I will bring it up in the privacy of the referees room after the game. The only time I will call outside of my area, is off ball, when my partner has primary coverage of the ball, and I see something not in his field of vision or that I know he missed because he's focusing on the ball. Or a major SHTF situation where something has to be called or else the situation's going to get worse.

[ref18]

Originally Posted by fonzzy07

This is gonna go to the leauge however if you were the league director what punishment would you give

I love this question. I run a men's league up here, I used hand down punishments, until the players realized that they're going to get punished and recently haven't had a single disciplinary problems.

After reading this situation, I would talk to the coach in question. One technical in a game doesn't warrant a suspension or major disciplinary actions.

If you wanted something to get done, I would've given him his second T after the game (while he was giving you the hard time), noted the disqualification, and in my league if that had happened, he'd be sitting out the next week for sure.

If I were in your shoes, I would've just walked away, he wants you to listen to him, and you aren't going to change his mind, so don't give him the satisfaction of being heard.

[fonzzy07]

Fair enough, however this coach never recived the T it was the assitant who was complaining after the game the head coach got the T earlier. At the time of the little trouble I did not think at all the assitant coach would make any kind of deal after the game.
The coaches are sloppy cause I omitted there names and I dont thing I choose the best pen names but I'm too lazy to go back and edit it so o well.

[ref18]

Ohhh OK, yeah it sounded like the assistant got the first T.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by fonzzy07

Sorry it is vague I shouldcahnge this before i send this off. It was the baseline. He steped back to the wall and rolled it like a bowling ball, so it rolled over the baseline.( It touched the line)
He did this because the other team was not pressing and he didn't trust his girls arm strenght and thus he would roll it to midcourt and then his player would touch it, it would save him time.

First of all, I thought you said this was a girls game. Since it was not a playoff game and it is 5th grade. I probably wouldn't call that, just like I know you let some traveling go, some double dribbles, etc. Did the score end up like 7-6? However, it is totally unacceptable for the Coach to react the way he did. Welcome to little league basketball. The girls parents are the worse. At this level, the parents are wayyyy toooo into it. Whenever I have a game like this, I'm not taking off no shoes, I grab my bags and I'm out of there before the coach can find me. While they are shacking hands, I'm exiting.

[fonzzy07]

Originally Posted by Old School

First of all, I thought you said this was a girls game. Since it was not a playoff game and it is 5th grade. I probably wouldn't call that, just like I know you let some traveling go, some double dribbles, etc. Did the score end up like 7-6? However, it is totally unacceptable for the Coach to react the way he did. Welcome to little league basketball. The girls parents are the worse. At this level, the parents are wayyyy toooo into it. Whenever I have a game like this, I'm not taking off no shoes, I grab my bags and I'm out of there before the coach can find me. While they are shacking hands, I'm exiting.

Well we had another after that. no I think the final was like 24-19 something like that. We have been told in this league not to let that stuff go, that they need to learn sometime so better now then never. The year is almost over for them too. We allow things like that in 2nd,3rd, and some levels of 4th but after that it is basketball and guess what the kids LEARN how to really play basketball and not just foul all the time.

[ref18]

Originally Posted by fonzzy07

Well we had another after that. no I think the final was like 24-19 something like that. We have been told in this league not to let that stuff go, that they need to learn sometime so better now then never. The year is almost over for them too. We allow things like that in 2nd,3rd, and some levels of 4th but after that it is basketball and guess what the kids LEARN how to really play basketball and not just foul all the time.

My personal opinion after doing a 5th/6th grade girls tournament 2 weekends ago. They're still too young to be calling that sort of stuff They haven't developed the skills they need to. When I'm able to start calling every travel, I'll start worrying about that kind of a line violation. I'd make a note of mentioning it to the player or the coach though so they can teach their kids the proper way to do it. Because after all, in the play you described, no advantage was gained.

[fonzzy07]

Originally Posted by ref18

My personal opinion after doing a 5th/6th grade girls tournament 2 weekends ago. They're still too young to be calling that sort of stuff They haven't developed the skills they need to. When I'm able to start calling every travel, I'll start worrying about that kind of a line violation. I'd make a note of mentioning it to the player or the coach though so they can teach their kids the proper way to do it. Because after all, in the play you described, no advantage was gained.

You are correct in the advantage disadvantage thought method and that is what I TRY key word try to use. I feel an advantage was gained. The other team gets the ball down under there basket and more importantly the other team is unable to waits 9 seconds or so illegally.

[DC_Ref12]

Originally Posted by ref18

Even now with 6 years experience under my belt, I still work with officials who feel they have a duty to call in my area, and stuff like that, and it pisses the hell out of me.

But doesn't the official's manual say that just because a violation happens outside your area, that doesn't mean you shouldn't blow the whistle?

[Old School]

Originally Posted by fonzzy07

You are correct in the advantage disadvantage thought method and that is what I TRY key word try to use. I feel an advantage was gained. The other team gets the ball down under there basket and more importantly the other team is unable to waits 9 seconds or so illegally.

Well, if you thought you did the right thing than you just have to live with it. Others here have told you that that's something you might want to let go. Especially if you are at half court. You keep making decisions like that and you're not going to last very long in this business. Remember, the games just about over. It is at this point in the game where we earn our money. I don't disagree with your analogy, but you have to be there (primary) to make the call. If you're going to reach out of your area to make a call, it needs to be something brutal, that we just can't let go. IOW, if there's no blood on the court you don't go into your partners area to make that call. If you do, and it happens to decide the game against my team. I, as the coach, am going to think you are cheating. You got something personal against my team. Be advised..hostilities, emotion of the moment, not good....