I think interesting question

[81artmonk]

I wasn't asking your thoughts on the rule, but the situation where refs aren't consistant in calling the rules, where one says he would call it, and another says he wouldn't.

[Ref in PA]

Originally Posted by 81artmonk

I wasn't asking your thoughts on the rule, but the situation where refs aren't consistant in calling the rules, where one says he would call it, and another says he wouldn't.

What do you expect us to say?

Golly Gee, it is a darn shame all refs don't call the same. We are sooo sorry to all the coaches and little kids who lose games because the refs are different week to week. Send us their names and we will take care of it.

In the perfect world all refs would judge the same week in and week out. All refs would know the rules. All refs would never miss a call. Guess what? Life isn't fair - deal with it. Teach you kids and parents to deal with it. Do your best under all circumstances. There is not much we can do about it. The ones here on this board seem to be trying to improve their game, becoming the best ref possible.

[canuckref]

I have called intentional fouls repeatedly late in games. Some examples: two hand push in ball handlers back in the bc, out and out tackles, holding a jersey, grabbing an arm and yanking. I am surprised how few coaches prepare for this type of play, but madly call for players to foul anyone, anyhow. I am also quick to call a legitimate play on ball that gets a solid block, hold, push foul. We don't need the real silly dramatic foul to happen, everyone gets crazy and it leads to increased chance of player injury late in a game.

[mick]

Originally Posted by 81artmonk

I wasn't asking your thoughts on the rule, but the situation where refs aren't consistant in calling the rules, where one says he would call it, and another says he wouldn't.

Now, 81artmonk, ...you've been around here long enough to know which of this forum's members will follow the rules and which members will make something up.
The one's that call it use the term "game management".
The ones that won't call it use the term "game management".
...And all will call it judgement.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by mick

Now, 81artmonk, ...you've been around here long enough to know which of this forum's members will follow the rules and which members will make something up.
The one's that call it use the term "game management".
The ones that won't call it use the term "game management".
...And all will call it judgement.

You are wise beyond your years......

Unfortunately, it's true, it's true.....

[mplagrow]

Originally Posted by 81artmonk

I wasn't asking your thoughts on the rule, but the situation where refs aren't consistant in calling the rules, where one says he would call it, and another says he wouldn't.

On even numbered days, I call intentionals. On odd numbered days I don't. Except Thursdays, then the inverse is true.

[81artmonk]

I should have known better than to post again. This post doesn't apply to all but those few who really can't read and comprehend what they read.
The reason I reposted was that I was getting answers to the rule and not the situation. I know the rule and didn't need it rehashed or answered for me. I wanted your thoughts on that particular situation. It was kinda of a what do you think about this. Instead I got answers in the vein of I was attacking refs, I wasn't, I was just wanting to know your feelings about it. geesh.
I know I am going to get crucified for saying this but I just seem to not be able to keep my mouth shut. From my short time on this board, it appears to me that not all, but some of you refs have a real chip on your shoulder towards anyone who isn't one. I asked a seeminly innocent question and I get answers like, "geesh, what do you expect from us" " give us the names of those refs and we will deal with it" Can't you answer a question without APPEARING to be hostile??
I've gotten a few real good answers from what appears to be level headed good kind hearted refs, but I find myself not wanting to post afraid that I will get nailed for asking a stupid question or one that rubs some refs the wrong way. Oh well.

[deecee]

i would agree with most of what you just wrote -- good observation

however you ask us to comment on the difference in judgement from one ref to another and you EXPECT an answer -- thats a bit unreasonable. I cannot comment on anyone elses judgment or expect anyone to comment on mine.

you are complaining about a system that knows THIS is an issue HOWEVER there is NO REAL way to FIX it. An earlier poster hit it on the head where he asked for names so he could straighten them out JMO.

[BLydic]

Please read post #4 of this thread, it answered your question perfectly.

Your words:

"One week we get penalized for it and it costs us the game and the next week the oppossing team gets rewarded for doing it becuase the ref doesn't call it?"

Which part of this sentence do you think might rub refs the wrong way?

[AFHusker]

Originally Posted by BLydic

Please read post #4 of this thread, it answered your question perfectly.

Your words:

"One week we get penalized for it and it costs us the game and the next week the oppossing team gets rewarded for doing it becuase the ref doesn't call it?"

Which part of this sentence do you think might rub refs the wrong way?

That's the part that stuck out most to me.

Without seeing the plays it is tough to determine if any of us would have called it any different. I believe the intent of your question is to get an answer as to why one official will call an intentional while another may not call it on the exact same play. What one official sees as not making a proper play on the ball, another sees as proper. It is a judgement call. What is the proper way go for the ball when trying to foul for strategic purposes?

[BillyMac]

This is part of my pregame:

End of game strategic fouls: If the winning team is just holding the ball and is willing to take the free throws, then let’s call the foul immediately, so the ballhandler doesn’t get hit harder to draw a whistle. Let’s make sure there is a play on the ball by the defense. If there’s no play on the ball, if the defense grabs the jersey from behind, or if the ballhandler receives a bear hug, we should consider an intentional foul. These are not basketball plays and should be penalized as intentional.

[Ref in PA]

Originally Posted by 81artmonk

I should have known better than to post again. This post doesn't apply to all but those few who really can't read and comprehend what they read.
The reason I reposted was that I was getting answers to the rule and not the situation. I know the rule and didn't need it rehashed or answered for me. I wanted your thoughts on that particular situation. It was kinda of a what do you think about this. Instead I got answers in the vein of I was attacking refs, I wasn't, I was just wanting to know your feelings about it. geesh.
I know I am going to get crucified for saying this but I just seem to not be able to keep my mouth shut. From my short time on this board, it appears to me that not all, but some of you refs have a real chip on your shoulder towards anyone who isn't one. I asked a seeminly innocent question and I get answers like, "geesh, what do you expect from us" " give us the names of those refs and we will deal with it" Can't you answer a question without APPEARING to be hostile??
I've gotten a few real good answers from what appears to be level headed good kind hearted refs, but I find myself not wanting to post afraid that I will get nailed for asking a stupid question or one that rubs some refs the wrong way. Oh well.

My feeble attempt at sarcasm failed. I need lessons from Mr. Padgett or should I say Captain Padgett.

Truly no hostility was intended, but I thought the question a bit inane. There is no good answer as others have said. This is a judgement call. And judgement calls depend on the moment. To debate why one ref calls something and another does not: that answer that can be definitively given. All we can say is that most associations and chapters do strive for consistentcy among refs - maybe where you live they don't do such a good job.

[81artmonk]

Now I understand. Thank you. Your sarcasm comes off as rude and hostile, but now that you have explained yourself, I can understand better. I guess without knowing everyone on a personal level things can be misconstued. I don't want to sound condecending, but From my listening to this forum you refs seem to live in a logical and straight line world so I can see how asking a open ended question about judgement could be a difficult task... ha ha. We all learn from our mistakes and I have mine.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by 81artmonk

I should have known better than to post again. This post doesn't apply to all but those few who really can't read and comprehend what they read.
The reason I reposted was that I was getting answers to the rule and not the situation. I know the rule and didn't need it rehashed or answered for me. I wanted your thoughts on that particular situation.

How do you expect us to pass judgement on a play we didn't see? Seriously!!!

All we can tell you is what the rules and POE's tells us we SHOULD do and what we may have done in similar situations.

What are you looking for us to tell you? As I said in an earlier thread started by you, I think you are being disingenuous. I believe your real reason to post here is to go back and tell some official "See, I told you so!"

I noticed you didn't reply to my last post to you in the thread you started concerning backcourt violations. Is that maybe b/c you were wrong and the official was right?!?

[Ref Daddy]

Alas judgment vs. personal interpretations.

The default SHOULD BE an intentional unless the player really makes a legitimate attempt to get the ball.

I think right now its the other way around.