Interesting question

[NBA2003]

I have an interesting play--haven't seen it occur, but want to be prepared if it does.

Lets say that the offensive player shoots the ball (long 3 point shot) and 1/2 second after he/she shoots- the shot clock sounds. So the ball WAS released on time. As the ball travels through the air, the game horn sounds two seconds after the shot clock (I'm assuming the timer doesn't stop the clock because no whistle has been blown yet as we wait to see the outcome of the shot). The ball misses the rim. Would you put time back on the clock if you had correct timing information because the ball became dead when the shot clock sounded and the shot ended up missing the rim--that is when the violation occured. Or would you say the violation didn't take place until it missed the rim, so the clock should not have stopped.

I would think that the clock would not stop until we see the ball miss the rim. If the shot clock sounds and the ball does subsequently hit the rim, the clock would not have stopped. So what would we do in this situation? What would we do if the officials DID NOT have correct timing information?

Hope everyone has a great New Years!

Scott

[BktBallRef]

We don't have a shot clock in under normal NF rules.

In the NBA, they would put the correct amount of time back on the clock. NBA officials always ha ve the corrrect timing information. if there's anyhting that the rest of us could learn from NBA officials, it's clock awareness.

[mick]

Originally posted by NBA2003
I have an interesting play--haven't seen it occur, but want to be prepared if it does.
[snip]
I would think that the clock would not stop until we see the ball miss the rim. If the shot clock sounds and the ball does subsequently hit the rim, the clock would not have stopped. So what would we do in this situation? What would we do if the officials DID NOT have correct timing information?

Scott

Scott,
When we determine a shotclock violation, we blow the whistle.
If our whistle beats the horn, and we do not have definite knowledge of the time, I think we have to allow for the 1 second lapse time of the time keeper and call the period completed, or we may go to the monitor that is acceptable by rule.
If the whistle is at the same time as the horn, that period ends on the violation.
mick

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by NBA2003
I have an interesting play--haven't seen it occur, but want to be prepared if it does.

Lets say that the offensive player shoots the ball (long 3 point shot) and 1/2 second after he/she shoots- the shot clock sounds. So the ball WAS released on time. As the ball travels through the air, the game horn sounds two seconds after the shot clock (I'm assuming the timer doesn't stop the clock because no whistle has been blown yet as we wait to see the outcome of the shot). The ball misses the rim. Would you put time back on the clock if you had correct timing information because the ball became dead when the shot clock sounded and the shot ended up missing the rim--that is when the violation occured. Or would you say the violation didn't take place until it missed the rim, so the clock should not have stopped.

I would think that the clock would not stop until we see the ball miss the rim. If the shot clock sounds and the ball does subsequently hit the rim, the clock would not have stopped. So what would we do in this situation? What would we do if the officials DID NOT have correct timing information?

Hope everyone has a great New Years!

Scott

The horns indicate different things. The shot clock horn is that the shot must be released before the horn sounds. It's not a violation, though, until the shot doesn't hit the rim. The game clock continues to run. When the official blows the whistle to indicate the violation, the game clock stops. In your play, this was after the buzzer sounded. The period is over. See NCAA 2-13-8 AR30.

(I assume you use NCAA shot clock rules for your games)

[NBA2003]

We do not use NCAA shot clock rules. I am in California and we work under NF rules with an exception. State CIF rules approved the use of a shot clock in all boys and girls games. And in the CBOA handbook, their is no case book play that is close to this. I am surprised that NCAA would end the period and not put time back on the clock. How important is clock awareness on every new possession (by either team) in NCAA? Are NCAA officials suppose to check the clock on every change of possession/re-possession (offensive rebound)?

[mick]

Originally posted by NBA2003
We do not use NCAA shot clock rules. I am in California and we work under NF rules with an exception. State CIF rules approved the use of a shot clock in all boys and girls games. And in the CBOA handbook, their is no case book play that is close to this. I am surprised that NCAA would end the period and not put time back on the clock. How important is clock awareness on every new possession (by either team) in NCAA? Are NCAA officials suppose to check the clock on every change of possession/re-possession (offensive rebound)?

NBA2003
The shot clock buzzer went off 2 sec.+/- before the horn.
Counting the flight of the ball 2-1/2 seconds (A very,, very long shot), how much time could be left on the clock for the official to judge the shot missed the rim, to blow the whistle, and to locate the shot clock which is rapidly winding down to Zip in 10ths of a second?
mick

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by NBA2003
We do not use NCAA shot clock rules. I am in California and we work under NF rules with an exception. State CIF rules approved the use of a shot clock in all boys and girls games. And in the CBOA handbook, their is no case book play that is close to this. I am surprised that NCAA would end the period and not put time back on the clock. How important is clock awareness on every new possession (by either team) in NCAA? Are NCAA officials suppose to check the clock on every change of possession/re-possession (offensive rebound)?

Yes, NCAA officials are supposed to check the clock on every posession.

What shot clock rules do you use, if not the NCAA's? (I understand it's NF plus an exception -- did CA write their own rules, or borrow the NCAA rules, or the NBA rules, or ...)

[NBA2003]

I've looked into the C.I.F. rule modification allowing shot clock usage in boys and girls games and discovered the following. The rules governing the shot clock for high school are the same as those used in the NCAA mens and womens games. Thus, I imagine that the correct ruling if the shot is released on time and the game horn sounds while the ball is traveling through the air, if a violation follows we would just end the period regardless of whether we have knowledge of the correct time involved. As Bob Jenkins pointed out, the ruling is NCAA 2-13-8 AR30.

[Dennis Flannery]

According to your post...the shot clock horn went off after the shot was on it's way, and the game clock went off before you cracked your whistle.....the quarter (high school) or the half (ncaa) is over. There is no reason to put time back on the clock. Also just to let you know...the shoot clock rules for high school basketball in CA. are NCAA rules. Also is this Scott?

[hoopsrefBC]

I believe that the NCAA indicates that the official would have to have absolute knowlege of the time so that an accurate adjustment could be made.

keep smiling
SH

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by hoopsrefBC
I believe that the NCAA indicates that the official would have to have absolute knowlege of the time so that an accurate adjustment could be made.

keep smiling
SH

There is no adjustment to be made. The violation doesn't occur until the shot ends (since the ball was released prior to the shot clock horn). Since the period was over by the time the violation occurred, the period is over.

It's no different from A releasing the ball, game horn sounds, ball touches out of bounds. You don't put 2 seconds (or whatever) back on the clock and give the ball to B. The period just ends.

[rpwall]

I agree that no time should be put back on the clock.

Otherwise, we would have to put time back on the clock every time the ball was in flight and the shot-clock buzzer sounded on an attempt that did not hit the rim ... not just at the end of the period.

[walter]

Bob said it all. You don't have a shot clock try violation unti the try is completed. Since both horns sounded before the try ended, the end of the try ends the quarter or half. No time goes back on the clock.