Bob Knight's Latest Comments about College Officials

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by IREFU2

I would hope race wouldnt have anything to do with it.

If gender is a factor in the Women's game, I expect race to be a factor in the Men's game. Also considering that the majority of college players tend to be of a certain race, I would expect Men's assignors to find officials that look like many players and even coaches. I bet the MEAC and SWAC are looking more for a certain race of an official as compared to other conferences. We need to stop living in this fantasy world where we only think people are chosen for anything based on how good they are. How good someone is very subjective anyway. People are hired at the college level for all kinds of reasons and often it has nothing to do with how good you are.

Peace

[cmathews]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If gender is a factor in the Women's game, I expect race to be a factor in the Men's game. Also considering that the majority of college players tend to be of a certain race, I would expect Men's assignors to find officials that look like many players and even coaches. I bet the MEAC and SWAC are looking more for a certain race of an official as compared to other conferences. We need to stop living in this fantasy world where we only think people are chosen for anything based on how good they are. How good someone is very subjective anyway. People are hired at the college level for all kinds of reasons and often it has nothing to do with how good you are.

Peace

I agree with what you are saying Jeff, but it still doesn't make it right, it just makes it a reality...

[archer]

Reason all these older guys are working and you are not seeing younger officals is because the coaches trust the older guys and know how they call.
Its getting harder and harder for a white guy to be a college offical. Im not trying to use the race card. Im just passing on what a D1 offical told me. They are looking for black men in mens and looking for women or a black woman is a plus in the womens side of basketball.
As for the amount of games worked.... If you got travel expense like the college officals do you would gobble up as many games as you could. Ex. An offical lives in Dallas. They are assigned a game at UCONN. They get travel from dallas to UCONN. Then the next night they have a game at UMASS. Well they get travel from Dallas to UMASS, instead of from UCONN to UMASS.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by cmathews

I agree with what you are saying Jeff, but it still doesn't make it right, it just makes it a reality...

Why does it not make it right?

Peace

[ChrisSportsFan]

Originally Posted by stmaryrams

There will always be an issue with getting additional officials who are actually qualified to work at a D1 level.

No it's not, there's tons of phenomenal officials working at the D2, D3 and JuCo levels who are just waiting for their break. I do not put myself in this group although I have worked with some who are ready.

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Why does it not make it right?

Peace

Because we live in a world that is suppose to have over come such obstacles.

[cmathews]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Why does it not make it right?

Peace

Because hiring someone based on race, gender, sexual orientation or anything else other than skill and ability, is discrimination....something that I thought this country was trying to get away from.

[REFVA]

You really think there would be a shortage of officials wanting to work D1 games?

I'll take myself as an example. I want to stipulate right up front that I'm speaking for myself. I work for a couple of associations. I accept the games and the work that benefits me most. If one of the other associations sends me 60 to 75 miles away all the time and the other send me 10 to 25 miles away. where do you think I going to accept more games? The same goes for when and if someone tells me where and when and how many games I'm going to work. It's a choice. These officials get those D1 assignment have earned and diserve that honor. Again why and what does it matter if they work 1 or 6 games a week. Becuase Coach Knight says so. Maybe he should learn how to treat his players nicer. I don't tell him how to coach..

And yes I think that we are human, most will take the path of least resistance. it will bring a shortage to the pool..

Also keep in mind of all the abuse, the threats, the violence that we face. At what point does that small amount of money we earn make it worth it. I primarily do it becuase I love it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by cmathews

Because hiring someone based on race, gender, sexual orientation or anything else other than skill and ability, is discrimination....something that I thought this country was trying to get away from.

Let me put it to you this way. There was a time when the only people that worked these games at all looked like a certain group of people, despite who was on the court and who were the top performers and where they came from. In some of these conferences there were no players of certain colors or races even allowed to participate at a particular school, whether they were in the South or the North.

I was watching Kentucky-LSU last night (the very end of the game) and there was only one Black official on the game when the vast majority of players were of that same color and even one of the head coaches were of that same color. And that is with the Supervisor of Officials of the SEC being an African-American.

Race and gender can always be a factor in hiring. If I work for a company where the vast majority of my clientele is of one race or gender, it is perfectly legal to hire people that look like the vast majority of that clientele. That is different than excluding people just because of their race or gender. This is the reason you see a lot of female official working D1 Women's ball because the coaches and all the players are female. It only makes since to have people that can relate or have similar backgrounds to the players. Part of our job is to be able to deal with players and coaches in very hostile situations. I am sure the assignors want people that are used to situations with certain kinds of players and coaches. If you have never worked with potential D1 players, you might have a harder time dealing with those kinds of players when the lights come on.

Peace

[cmathews]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Let me put it to you this way. There was a time when the only people that worked these games at all looked like a certain group of people, despite who was on the court and who were the top performers and where they came from. In some of these conferences there were no players of certain colors or races even allowed to participate at a particular school, whether they were in the South or the North.

yes and that is wrong, some very smart and influential people worked to make it so that didn't happen any more.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I was watching Kentucky-LSU last night (the very end of the game) and there was only one Black official on the game when the vast majority of players were of that same color and even one of the head coaches were of that same color. And that is with the Supervisor of Officials of the SEC being an African-American.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Race and gender can always be a factor in hiring. If I work for a company where the vast majority of my clientele is of one race or gender, it is perfectly legal to hire people that look like the vast majority of that clientele. That is different than excluding people just because of their race or gender.

Using race or gender as a hiring factor, by definition excludes people who are not of that race or gender.....thereby making it discriminatory and socially wrong....however I don't live in a vacuum I know it happens, it will continue to happen, and it will affect both genders and all races at some point. I just have a problem with it when it appears to be a double standard.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This is the reason you see a lot of female official working D1 Women's ball because the coaches and all the players are female. It only makes since to have people that can relate or have similar backgrounds to the players. Part of our job is to be able to deal with players and coaches in very hostile situations. I am sure the assignors want people that are used to situations with certain kinds of players and coaches. If you have never worked with potential D1 players, you might have a harder time dealing with those kinds of players when the lights come on.

Peace

[REFVA]

I Think that this thread is going in the wrong direction, Although very interesting. This post had nothing to do with gender, race or religion. we know that this country as much as they say is very fair, we know damn well there is a lot of prejudice. In every category. we all feel it in some way of another.

[DC_Ref12]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

He makes disparaging remarks directly to the officials during the game instead. He's a world-class whiner, moaner, b!tcher and complainer, right up there with Jim Boheim. Knight doesn't whine as much during a game as Coach Krybaby does.

Cite? Just watch a Duke game. Any Duke game.

That's not my point, and that was not the point of the original post about Coach K. That poster was trying to equate Bobby Knight's blaming his 5 game losing streak on the officials.

For as bad as Coach K is on the court - and I do recognize this - I cannot EVER remember him blaming a loss, or a losing streak, on the officials.

The conversation at hand has nothing to do with in-game behavior. It has to do with the contention that Coach K whines to the media about officials. I think that's patently false.

Who did Coach K blame for the 4-game skid his team went on recently? Certainly not the refs.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by DC_Ref12

That's not my point, and that was not the point of the original post about Coach K. That poster was trying to equate Bobby Knight's blaming his 5 game losing streak on the officials.

For as bad as Coach K is on the court - and I do recognize this - I cannot EVER remember him blaming a loss, or a losing streak, on the officials.

The conversation at hand has nothing to do with in-game behavior. It has to do with the contention that Coach K whines to the media about officials. I think that's patently false.

Who did Coach K blame for the 4-game skid his team went on recently? Certainly not the refs.

Fine. After the game is over, he's an angel. During a game, he's worse than Knight imo when it comes to whining and crying. Stick up for him, being the good Dookie fanboy that you are.. ..just don't try to intimate that he's a beacon of sportsmanship. He's a good coach, but he's also a world-class whiner. Jmo, and I ain't a fan of any other team in his league either. I'm just a fan of officials.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by cmathews

yes and that is wrong, some very smart and influential people worked to make it so that didn't happen any more.

Just so you know, it still happens where people of certain races cannot get any significant opportunities even in places where they are by far the majority. I just saw report on contracting in the Chicago area and the stats of people of color not getting opportunities despite being the population majority.

Originally Posted by cmathews

Using race or gender as a hiring factor, by definition excludes people who are not of that race or gender.....thereby making it discriminatory and socially wrong....however I don't live in a vacuum I know it happens, it will continue to happen, and it will affect both genders and all races at some point. I just have a problem with it when it appears to be a double standard.

I guess schools like Florida A&M or Grambling St. should not hire African-American teachers and faculty because that would be excluding Caucasian and Hispanic teachers from opportunities. Forget that facts the vast majority of their students are African-American or the mission of the schools are to give opportunity to African-Americans where they have not been allowed in other parts of the education system.

BTW, the two conferences these schools are members of seem to have the vast majority of their officials in at least Football and Basketball is African-American. I have seen Caucasian and Hispanic officials work games in very rare cases, but I would not on the surface want to not accurately represent the officials and different than the players, coaches, fans and administration. BTW, the only female official to ever work the NCAA Men's Tournament, came from the SWAC Conference. So let us not act as if there is complete equality already in hiring. I am sure there are female officials perfectly capable to work the Men's game but that does not happen for the most obvious reasons. Why is that OK but when you put race into that factor it is not OK? Just something to think about I guess.

Peace

[DC_Ref12]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Stick up for him, being the good Dookie fanboy that you are.. ..just don't try to intimate that he's a beacon of sportsmanship.

Where did I intimate that he is a beacon of sportsmanship?