Call it or not?

[Swingandamiss]

3 man crew, I am U1. High School Varsity tourney. Team A is ahead by 10, less than 2 minutes left. They do the old 4 corners, spread the court and pass the ball around. B1 follows the ball, running from player to player, trying to commit a foul, but Team A gets rid of the ball each time before he gets there, he gives up each time and does not make contact with any of Team A's players. I have no call, no contact, no foul. B1 finally slams into A4, hard, in R's area, he calls foul. We shoot the ft's, game ends, we go to dressing room. My R, vet, IAABO of 9-10 years says, "You gotta call that. They want the foul." I say no contact, no foul. He tells me I have to call it because if I don't things get out of hand. I disagree, U2 agrees with me and we get into a pretty heated argument in the dressing room. Now we have to go back out and call 4 more games , in about 30 minutes. So, do I call the foul or not? I still say no contact, no foul.

[BktBallRef]

If it's a foul in the 1st quarter, it's a foul in the 4th.

[Mark Padgett]

If it's not a foul in the first quarter, it's not a foul in the fourth. Ask yourself this - if you call a personal foul without any contact, what mechanic would you use? I guess you could use the illegal use of hands mechanic but just miss your arm when you do it.

[Texas Aggie]

No contact, no foul, but you might use a little more discretion in what contact it takes to draw a whistle if you think it might escalate if you don't call.

In terms of same 1st quarter/4th quarter, I think there's a difference between a team trying to foul to stop the clock and just being overly aggressive. However, I can see a difference of opinion on this issue and am interested in hearing other thoughts.

[Camron Rust]

No contact, no foul.

The offense deserves the advantage of running out the clock if they can keep the ball away from the defense. If B takes it too far when they finally do make contact, make the call accordingly.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The offense deserves the advantage of running out the clock if they can keep the ball away from the defense.

Absolutely. And if offense is successful and defense fouls very roughly out of frustration, it's gonna be an intentional. And if the coach complains that I "gotta call the little ones" I say, "They've gotta commit the little ones."

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

And if the coach complains that I "gotta call the little ones" I say, "They've gotta commit the little ones."

Somebody said that about Chuck once too.

I think it was me.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Swingandamiss

3 man crew, I am U1. High School Varsity tourney. Team A is ahead by 10, less than 2 minutes left. They do the old 4 corners, spread the court and pass the ball around. B1 follows the ball, running from player to player, trying to commit a foul, but Team A gets rid of the ball each time before he gets there, he gives up each time and does not make contact with any of Team A's players. I have no call, no contact, no foul. B1 finally slams into A4, hard, in R's area, he calls foul. We shoot the ft's, game ends, we go to dressing room. My R, vet, IAABO of 9-10 years says, "You gotta call that. They want the foul." I say no contact, no foul. He tells me I have to call it because if I don't things get out of hand. I disagree, U2 agrees with me and we get into a pretty heated argument in the dressing room. Now we have to go back out and call 4 more games , in about 30 minutes. So, do I call the foul or not? I still say no contact, no foul.

So in the cases where the no contact is in your primary, you have no contact, and the R wants a foul?

Seems to me he wants you to call a T.

[Ref Daddy]

No contact - no foul.

Frustrated foul in the paint - intentional.

We apply rules .... not game strategy.

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by Swingandamiss

..."You gotta call that. They want the foul." I say no contact, no foul. He tells me I have to call it because if I don't things get out of hand. I disagree, U2 agrees with me and we get into a pretty heated argument in the dressing room...

How does this "veteran" last as long as he did with this philosophy? The concept of contact and fouling is about as fundamental as it gets. He wants to call fouls on the defense based on their desired outcome? Talk about a slippery slope.

[JoeTheRef]

What a helluva offensive strategy to get rid of the ball and avoid any contact from the defense and kill the clock. Well coached. If the ball was in the "Vet's" primary does he penalize this brilliant coaching tactic? On the other hand, either the defensive player or the coach needs to be at the end of the bench because somebody didn't do their job.

[Junker]

No contact, no foul. You don't want to penalize the offense for being smart and moving the ball well. I'm sure they would have liked to have more points on the scoreboard, but you can't just give those to a team beacuse they want it.

[Vinski]

My rule book tells me that contact is required for a personal foul to be committed. I’ve seen games where these “phantom” fouls are called in similar situations and it is tremendously frustrating to the kids and coach. If that ref wanted a foul called, let him call it.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by Vinski

My rule book tells me that contact is required for a personal foul to be committed. I’ve seen games where these “phantom” fouls are called in similar situations and it is tremendously frustrating to the kids and coach. If that ref wanted a foul called, let him call it.

Vin, I've seen this as well, and I've also seen it where the ref called the touchy foul because he thought the team was trying to foul and they weren't. Coached asked him how is that touch a foul now and it wasn't for the other 3 quarters. Ref responded, "I was helping you out, you were the ones trying foul". Coach: You're an idiot, we were playing good defense, not trying to foul. ONly thing I could do was switch my with my partner and put him opposite table for the free throws.

[WeekendRef]

Swingandmiss ,
I don't mean to take the state you work in to task but are you three guys the only officials in that state ? You note that after the first game you are headed back out to the floor to do four more games ? Are you telling me you guys did at least 5 Varsity games in one day ? That is quite an impressive feat ! I am in pretty good shape and I know that if I worked 5 games Varsity games in one day I would be a little exausted both physically and mentally .