Stop Sign

[OklahomaRef]

Went to scout a game tonight. Saw two officials that have been calling a long time. One was very very arrogant. A coach questions a call, I don't mean flipping out, just questioning. The official gives him the stop sign 3 times. The coach turns to walk away, makes about three steps and official gives him a T. Coach didn't even know he got it. I think the whole situation could have been avoided if there wasn't a "stop" sign. They went to line up and shoot free throws before he knew he got it. All of this happened 2 minutes left in the first quarter. Guess it was a sign, game turned out to be a pretty fun battle.

[badgerfan]

Sounds to me, that it was an official, who thought he was part of the Gestapo. Officials have to realize that the coaches and fans are their customers.

Maybe the ref had a bad experience with the coach.

[truerookie]

[QUOTE=badgerfan]
Gestapo.

The German internal security police as organized under the Nazi regime, known for its terrorist methods directed against those suspected of treason or questionable loyalty.
gestapo pl. -pos. A police organization that employs terroristic methods to control a populace

WOW!! I had to look up this word. I do not believe this was the case. The official show a little restraint in my opinion by giving the coach the STOP SIGN!! three times.


Were you there to hear what was said to the official?

The coach could have said something for the official to penalize. He gave the STOP SIGN three times already. Although, it does not look to appealing when giving the T signal to the back of a coach. He/(s)he needs to see it coming. Pesonally, I do not like the word Gestapo used in describing how the situation was handle now understanding what it means.

[badgerfan]

[QUOTE=truerookie]

Originally Posted by badgerfan

Gestapo.

The German internal security police as organized under the Nazi regime, known for its terrorist methods directed against those suspected of treason or questionable loyalty.
gestapo pl. -pos. A police organization that employs terroristic methods to control a populace

WOW!! I had to look up this word. I do not believe this was the case. The official show a little restraint in my opinion by giving the coach the STOP SIGN!! three times.


Were you there to hear what was said to the official?

The coach could have said something for the official to penalize. He gave the STOP SIGN three times already. Although, it does not look to appealing when giving the T signal to the back of a coach. He/(s)he needs to see it coming. Pesonally, I do not like the word Gestapo used in describing how the situation was handle now understanding what it means.

I have refereed football and basketball and use the word "Gestapo" for veteran partners who think that they have the power to rule all.

These veteran officials forget that the players and coaches are their customers.

Logical thinking does not prevail during athletic competition for some of these officials. Communication with coaches and players is vital.

My opinion, on my first year of officiating youth basketball and football.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by badgerfan

Sounds to me, that it was an official, who thought he was part of the Gestapo. Officials have to realize that the coaches and fans are their customers.

Those statements tie for the dumbest ever made on this forum.

Coaches are not allowed to question any call made by an official, outside of the correctable errors listed in R2-10 and possible bookkeeping and timing mistakes. If you had any kind of clue as to what was actually written in the rules, you might have known that.

Your Gestapo comment is just plain ignorant imo.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by OklahomaRef

Went to scout a game tonight. Saw two officials that have been calling a long time. One was very very arrogant. A coach questions a call, I don't mean flipping out, just questioning. The official gives him the stop sign 3 times. The coach turns to walk away, makes about three steps and official gives him a T. Coach didn't even know he got it. I think the whole situation could have been avoided if there wasn't a "stop" sign. They went to line up and shoot free throws before he knew he got it. All of this happened 2 minutes left in the first quarter. Guess it was a sign, game turned out to be a pretty fun battle.

I think the whole situation could have been avoided if there wasn't a "stop" sign

How would you have handled it?

Did you hear what the coach said as he turned his back and walked away?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by OklahomaRef

Went to scout a game tonight. Saw two officials that have been calling a long time. One was very very arrogant. A coach questions a call, I don't mean flipping out, just questioning. The official gives him the stop sign 3 times. The coach turns to walk away, makes about three steps and official gives him a T. Coach didn't even know he got it. I think the whole situation could have been avoided if there wasn't a "stop" sign. They went to line up and shoot free throws before he knew he got it. All of this happened 2 minutes left in the first quarter. Guess it was a sign, game turned out to be a pretty fun battle.

You are a coach. You think like a coach. You do not think like an official. A coach is not allowed to question an official's call. If they do, they do so at their own risk. You also don't know all of the dynamics of the play, but you sureasheck rush to dump on the official. From what I've seen so far of you, that's just typical. Don't blame the use of the stop sign for the technical foul. Blame the coach who acted in an unsporting manner and caused the technical foul by doing so.

Besides, the coach was probably just trying to get one of those strategic technical fouls that I've heard so much about. That makes it all OK.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by OklahomaRef

Went to scout a game tonight. Saw two officials that have been calling a long time. One was very very arrogant. A coach questions a call, I don't mean flipping out, just questioning. The official gives him the stop sign 3 times. The coach turns to walk away, makes about three steps and official gives him a T. Coach didn't even know he got it. I think the whole situation could have been avoided if there wasn't a "stop" sign. They went to line up and shoot free throws before he knew he got it. All of this happened 2 minutes left in the first quarter. Guess it was a sign, game turned out to be a pretty fun battle.

This is the very reason I cannot stand it when people are so adamant to advocate the stop sign. For one it did not work here and no matter how much the official is in the right, you look like an aggressor.

Secondly you have absolutely no idea what was said to that official. For all you know he could have said, "You are the worst f#$K### official I have ever seen and I wish you would go to hell!!" Unless you heard exactly what was said, you cannot sit here and tell anyone what should or should not have been done.

This just goes to show the gesture of the "stop sign" did not work if anything it might have incited the coach to react or say something out of line. I can accomplish the same thing by walking up slowly to a coach with my hand over my face and say just about anything and no one knows what I said except the coach and me. I could threaten a coach. I could curse them out. Or I could just say OK and everything I say looks non-threatening and not confrontational. You can warn a coach in this way and get the desired result. I must be doing something right. I have not had to T many coaches this year and in previous years. And I do not use the stop sign.

Peace

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This is the very reason I cannot stand it when people are so adamant to advocate the stop sign. For one it did not work here and no matter how much the official is in the right, you look like an aggressor.

Secondly you have absolutely no idea what was said to that official. For all you know he could have said, "You are the worst f#$K### official I have ever seen and I wish you would go to hell!!" Unless you heard exactly what was said, you cannot sit here and tell anyone what should or should not have been done.

This just goes to show the gesture of the "stop sign" did not work if anything it might have incited the coach to react or say something out of line. I can accomplish the same thing by walking up slowly to a coach with my hand over my face and say just about anything and no one knows what I said except the coach and me. I could threaten a coach. I could curse them out. Or I could just say OK and everything I say looks non-threatening and not confrontational. You can warn a coach in this way and get the desired result. I must be doing something right. I have not had to T many coaches this year and in previous years. And I do not use the stop sign.

Peace

I guess everyone knows that I agree with this.
See how this turned out? The all powerful stop sign didn't work at all. What would have been the difference if he would have just talked to the coach? We are humans and they are humans, I'm often concerned about why we can't communicate in a manner where neither one is put on the defensive.
I just emailed my assignor about unsportsmanlike behavior by coaches last night. We need to make sure sportsmanship is appropriate for high school or college basketball across the board. It has already got to the point where kids are doing things deserving of technical fouls, but the legal system will step in. Where is all this going?

BTW, IMO all good officials have some level of arrogance.

[OklahomaRef]

I have officiated and was starting to have some success. I understand the officials point of view, believe me. When I first started, a lot of older guys told me not to "put up with crap" from coaches. I had a lot harder time when I had this attitude. When I would allow a coach to say his piece, and then move on, the game would flow a lot smoother. It seems to me that some officials feel like a coach has absolutely no right to even speak to an official. In the situation I was talking about, the official gave the stop sign immediately. How could he have had enough (which is what the stop sign means, correct?) when the game just started. I'm not saying he was right or wrong. If he wanted to set this tone for the game then he was right. I was just saying there may have been a different way to handle the situation.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by OklahomaRef

In the situation I was talking about, the official gave the stop sign immediately. How could he have had enough (which is what the stop sign means, correct?) when the game just started. I'm not saying he was right or wrong. .

Do you know why the official gave the coach the immediate stop sign? Do you also know what the coach said that might have meant an immediate "enough" from the official? Nope, but that doesn't stop you from implying that the the official was wrong to give that immediate stop sign. And it didn't stop you from labeling the official as "arrogant" either.

You sureasheck are saying the official was wrong.

[dan74]

Originally Posted by OklahomaRef

I have officiated and was starting to have some success. I understand the officials point of view, believe me. When I first started, a lot of older guys told me not to "put up with crap" from coaches. I had a lot harder time when I had this attitude. When I would allow a coach to say his piece, and then move on, the game would flow a lot smoother. It seems to me that some officials feel like a coach has absolutely no right to even speak to an official. In the situation I was talking about, the official gave the stop sign immediately. How could he have had enough (which is what the stop sign means, correct?) when the game just started. I'm not saying he was right or wrong. If he wanted to set this tone for the game then he was right. I was just saying there may have been a different way to handle the situation.

Hmm..."have officiated" and "was?" Not trying to wade too far into the are you an official or not debate, but, hmmm...also, "I understand the officials point of view," hmm. Interesting use of past tense and "understand" almost seems as though you're an abserver rather than participater...Hmm. Anyway, not that it matters.

As of today, I'm about 75 games into my first season officiating. When I first started, I "had a lot harder time" when I gave some coaches too much latitude to say their piece. The thing is, the pieces kept coming and coming. I have now adopted the philosophy that I won't put "up with crap" from coaches. As long as they say their piece here and there, fine, but it's when the pieces add up to a whole pie (apple, that is), that's when I will no longer put up "with the crap."

When you state, OR, how could he have had enough, I might be wrong, but wasn't it at the end of the 1st? Had the coach said "his piece," and said his "piece" again and again in the 1st quarter? If so, then maybe the pieces added up to a whole pie (cherry, this time) and the official no longer could "put up with his crap."

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by tomegun

See how this turned out? The all powerful stop sign didn't work at all. What would have been the difference if he would have just talked to the coach? We are humans and they are humans, I'm often concerned about why we can't communicate in a manner where neither one is put on the defensive.

So since this particular official used the stop sign incorrectly, it's wrong for all officials to use it?

Bull$hit. That's like saying just because something doesn't work for one official, it should never be used by any official.

You make it sound like every official who uses the stop sign is a poor communicator. That's totally and completely false. When I use it, it's because even though I've communicated all night long with a coach, he has now made it apparent that he isn't going to listen to me, know matter how much I've listened to him. It's my way of saying, "OKay caoch, I've listened to you, you're not listening to me, so I'm not listening any further. Enough." Now, if he can't understand that when I say, "Coach, I've heard enough," that's a warning, then he's going to find out that I was serious.

Should the stop sign be used only in certain situations at a certain point? Certainly. Is it wrong to use it appropriately? No, it is not.

BTW, the stop sign seemed to work pretty good when Gary Maxwell gave it to K on Wednesady night.

[OklahomaRef]

Last year at a meeting, one of our senior officials told us to use our hands as little as possible. He said using hand motions was giving too much information. Just his take.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by OklahomaRef

Last year at a meeting, one of our senior officials told us to use our hands as little as possible. He said using hand motions was giving too much information. Just his take.

So I guess he blows his whistle, runs to the table, tells the scorer who fouled and never uses his hands for anything. I hope he at least points when the ball goes OOB.