2 strange questions...

[Ignats75]

and then went back about his business of watching pre-game warmups and didn't say another word to the kid if he didn't do it right away, i wouldn't think any differently of him.

If my partner is someone I've never worked with before, it might indeed make me wonder. Is this the kind of official that will warn a coach three or four times about violating the coaches box? Is this guy going to keep warning the same player to keep the arm bar down? Is this guy going to keep telling players to get out of the lane and never call 3 seconds?

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

If my partner is someone I've never worked with before, it might indeed make me wonder. Is this the kind of official that will warn a coach three or four times about violating the coaches box? Is this guy going to keep warning the same player to keep the arm bar down? Is this guy going to keep telling players to get out of the lane and never call 3 seconds?

good points, i see where you are going....like i said though i have guys who are veteran officials who i have worked with on a regular basis with who would not even think twice about this...my whole point in even bringing this up in the first place was to emphasize that if you do tell them once and then walk away they don't know whether you are still watching them disobey you or whether you told them and that was it you walked away and just expected that they would do as they are told. to me there is a benefit to treating players like "adults" when they reach the varsity level and not dictating to them in situations like this. now i understand that there are going to be a million other times during the game where i will dictate and there will not be a question, but to me it is a matter of picking your battles...and i don't buy the whole "if you give them an inch they'll take a mile" argument in this case...i am not out to start an adversarial relationship with a player before the game starts unless i am forced to....different school of thought that's all....

[Ignats75]

I'm not looking for an adversarial relationship either. But the relationship I do have with the players is one of judicial authority. I tell them something. I expect it to be done. I tell my 11 year old son to clean his room, he's going to clean his room. Its not an adversarial relationship. He does what I tell him to do because I expect him to do just that. Well, the same goes for the players. Its not adversarial. Its just that I have an expectation that they will do what I tell them to do. If I get lip, I already have some information about that team.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by kbilla

....like i said though i have guys who are veteran officials who i have worked with on a regular basis with who would not even think twice about this...my whole point in even bringing this up in the first place was to emphasize that if you do tell them once and then walk away they don't know whether you are still watching them disobey you or whether you told them and that was it you walked away and just expected that they would do as they are told. to me there is a benefit to treating players like "adults" when they reach the varsity level and not dictating to them in situations like this.

You just don't get it, do you? And sadly, it appears that your veteran officials don't get it either.

Where do you officiate, kbilla? Just wondering. I've never heard of any officials group up to now that doesn't enforce jewelry rules by the book in warmups.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You just don't get it, do you? And sadly, it appears that your veteran officials don't get it either.

Where do you officiate, kbilla? Just wondering. I've never heard of any officials group up to now that doesn't enforce jewelry rules by the book in warmups.

i guess i don't "get it" in your world....why does it matter, you coming to my association meetings to tell on me?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by kbilla

i guess i don't "get it" in your world....why does it matter, you coming to my association meetings to tell on me?

Why would I tell on you? You've been saying that your experienced high-level high school officials are doing exactly what you do anyway. If no one in your association is enforcing the rule the way it is written, what use would it be to even bring it up?

I could care less how you and everyone in your association calls it. I just want to make sure that other officials reading this thread know that you and your association are calling it wrong, by rule.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by kbilla

to me there is a benefit to treating players like "adults" when they reach the varsity level and not dictating to them in situations like this

First of all if you are working HS varsity sports, the players are not adults. I have a fundamental problem with these kinds of statements. These are still kids and in most cases are not legally old enough to do much of anything in our society. If you cannot tell a kid to apply to the rule, then I wonder if you have kids do you have problem telling your kids what to do? It is not hard to get a kid to comply or they will not play. If I do not get the kid to comply, I tell their coach and no matter how much hemming and hawing, they comply.

Peace

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

First of all if you are working HS varsity sports, the players are not adults. I have a fundamental problem with these kinds of statements. These are still kids and in most cases are not legally old enough to do much of anything in our society. If you cannot tell a kid to apply to the rule, then I wonder if you have kids do you have problem telling your kids what to do? It is not hard to get a kid to comply or they will not play. If I do not get the kid to comply, I tell their coach and no matter how much hemming and hawing, they comply.

Peace

you know what's funny, i have NEVER had a problem with this in pre-game. i have told kids to take stuff off and i don't worry about it..i cannot remember the last time i had had a kid come into a game with jewelry on. because you are right, it is not hard to get a kid to comply....

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

First of all if you are working HS varsity sports, the players are not adults. I have a fundamental problem with these kinds of statements. Peace

and this is a matter of opinion. that's fine if you don't think so, but it's a different school of thought....what if the kid is 18, is he an "adult" then? how i treat players might differ from how you treat players, but what i do has worked for me, i very seldom have problems with players or coaches for that matter....do what works for you...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by kbilla

and this is a matter of opinion. that's fine if you don't think so, but it's a different school of thought....what if the kid is 18, is he an "adult" then? how i treat players might differ from how you treat players, but what i do has worked for me, i very seldom have problems with players or coaches for that matter....do what works for you...

Of course it is an opinion. But I was raised by parents that required me to treat adults with respect. I do not care how others do things, but when you deal with me and you are not an adult, I require a certain amount of respect. This is why I do not introduce myself to them as "Jeff." I am not their equal as it relates to age and respect and responsibility. And especially if I am in an authority position over a child, because if something happens to them, guess who they are going to blame? Maybe if there was a general respect for people older than we are, maybe this society would be a better place. Then again, I do not care what others do, I demand respect from children as I would expect any teacher or other adult that deals with kids would require.

Peace