Is it possible?

[Johnny Ringo]

I understand you did not see the play. Let's forget about the play I described.

True or False.

You can have a foul called and then have the time on the clock be expired?

[NewNCref]

In that order, no, the statement is false. You cannot have a foul called, and then have time run off the clock. The clock stops on the whistle, and becomes dead as soon as the try ends.

However, in the event that a foul was called, and the timer wasn't able to stop the clock in time, and the officials had no definite knowledge of the time the foul occurred, then I could see going with the FTs, and the period then ending.

[Johnny Ringo]

That was worded poorly and not what I was trying to say.

True or False:

A foul may be called on B1 after A1 has released the try, but yet to return to the floor and the horn had sounded and time expired.

[deecee]

JOHNNY -- the @#$#@ answer is yes.

[NewNCref]

That is true (at least it is to the best of my knowledge, perhaps someone else can either support me or let me know if I'm wrong)

[Johnny Ringo]

Where is NevadaRef when you need him????

[NewNCref]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

Where is NevadaRef when you need him????

Probably off reffing somewhere, while East Coasters such as myself are winding down for the night. Anyways, deecee, from my experience reading the boards, is quite knowledgable.

[SamIAm]

yes, you can shoot free throws after time expires. A foul can occurr with the clock so near expiration that the official does not see time on the clock before the horn sounds. Of course there are t-foul sitches also that can result in free throws with no time on the clock or 8:00 or 16:00 or 20:00 (whatever the quarter or half begins with)

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

Where is NevadaRef when you need him????

You have the answer. It can happen. What more do you need?

Drive, jump, shot, time expires, foul, shooter returns to the floor.

[BoomerSooner]

The information that Johnny is looking for and maybe not getting is a critical element of officiating: the whistle and the horn do not make the ball dead. The horn only signals that playing time has expired and once a condition that makes the ball dead occurs the game will be over, except of course in OT or FT situations. So to answer the question, the ball is still live despite the horn sounding. In the case of a live ball not only could a foul be called on a player fouling an airborn shooter, but it could be called away from the shooter as well. It would certainly be a gutsy call, and once the horn sounds not to many players are going to be doing anything other than watching the shot, but if A1 releases a shot, the horn sounds, A2 shoves B1 under the basket, you could have a foul.

Also Mountaineer, you did answer your own question. If there are FT's still to be shot then the FT's for the T would be part of the quarter in which they happened, not OT.

An interesting twist on this, however, is what to do if A is up by 4 points and they foul airborn shooter B1 after the horn has sounded; after deciding that the FT's will have no impact on the final score, and thus ruling that the FT's should not be taken, coach from A drops the F-bomb on you? This may be a whole new can of worms that will never happen and could fill an entire thread, but it semi-fits in here? Remember we've already determined that no FT's should be taken on the original foul after the horn when Coach A goes off, so does the T change that ruling? Do we run for the hills as to aviod a possible OT? What to do, what to do?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

Where is NevadaRef when you need him????

You'll have to excuse me, I had a game tonight. I really do officitate actual games instead of just answering questions on the forum. Rather scary thought, huh?

Anyway BoomerSooner provided the best answer to your original question. The ball is live during the try and ANY foul during this time, even one not by or on an airborne shooter, should be penalized.

In order to conclusively prove what others have said, I'll point you to 5-6-2 Exception 3 in the rule book: "If a foul occurs so near the expiration of time that the timer cannot get the clock stopped before time expires or after time expires, but while the ball is in flight during a try or tap for field goal. The quarter or extra period ends when the free throw(s) and all related activity have been completed...."

What your fellow official was talking about is the new rule change that lag time has been eliminated. Therefore, you are allowed to put the exact time back on the clock, when the whistle sounded for the foul, if warranted and if you have definite knowledge. However, this does NOT mean that at least 0.1 MUST be on the clock whenever a foul occurs, as that official stated. We have shown that is untrue.

Note that in NFHS, the correct time to put back on the clock is when the whistle is sounded because that is the signal that the timer uses to stop the clock. However, in an NCAA game, if the officials used the courtside monitor, the correct time to put back would be when the actual contact occurred. In this situation, it does not matter, under NCAA rules, when the whistle was blown.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

What your fellow official was talking about is the new rule change that lag time has been eliminated. Therefore, you are allowed to put the exact time back on the clock, when the whistle sounded for the foul, if warranted and if you have definite knowledge.

I wanted to point this out as well. You must have definite knowledge of what should be on the clock. Some people assume that since the whistle came slightly before the horn, that you MUST put some time up, since the clock should have stopped. But even though the clock should have stopped on the whistle, you also have to SEE what is on the clock before it expires in order to put that time back up.