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Old Tue Oct 30, 2001, 09:27pm
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Question

I am curious about a common thread in several of the discussions I have been reading. It seems that in basketball, it is a common practice for the officials to get out of the area the game was held in without delay. They make a point of checking everything prior to the end of the game, several times, so they can essentially run out the door at the moment the buzzer sounds.

This is my first year officiating basketball, but it is my third year doing both soccer and swimming. In swimming, there is no hurry to get out of the area at all - as a matter of fact, the referee is responsible to check that the scores have been added right. In soccer, I have felt a desire to leave quickly on 1-2 occasions, out of probably between 100 and 150 games.

Maybe I am just missing some point, but I don't understand why the officials woulnd't stay around long enough to make sure everything is ok after the game. I have made some major blown calls, but never felt any kind of fear from officials, the fans, or any of the players, even if there were problems from the game. I'm not overconfident - I just would rather see things right than run out the door, and find out later that there was a mistake, making for an awkward resolution at best...

Could someone please explain this to me, seriously... I know there is a lot of joking around in here, and I can see some really quippy replies. I am asking a serious question, and would really like to know why everyone is in such a hurry to get out of the door...

Speaking as a fan, I know there are times I have witnessed a basketball game that I felt the officials were really bad (or even just one, althout we all know that no officials are EVER bad!), but I don't see any reason for them to hurry out the door if there is any question of a problem with the game afterwards.

Thanks in advance.

Dave
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Old Tue Oct 30, 2001, 10:50pm
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There's no need to run off the floor, but there's also no need to stand around. Nothing good can come of it. And it's not a problem if you take care of business before time expires.

In basketball, the fans, players and coaches are closer to you than any other sport. It can be very intense and emotional. I don't see how anyone could possibly compare it to swimming. Perhaps once you are involved in a very intense, heated, emotional contest, you'll see the need.
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Old Tue Oct 30, 2001, 11:26pm
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I definately agree that basketball is very different, especially from soccer.

In soccer, there are (generally) less fans, they're all outside (often in cold weather), and often on the other side of the field from the scorer's table/team area.

In basketball, however, everyone is enclosed, things get loud and hot and sweaty, and there is usually only one way for the refs to get to their locker room - one exit can be easily blocked.

Basketball can get so bad that I've had games as a timer where I have wanted to leave immediately after the buzzer . . .
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Old Tue Oct 30, 2001, 11:44pm
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Two different.

You did miss something drinkeii. Soccer and Football are both outdoor sports. Usually the fans are very far away, and if fans are upset with you, they have a ways to go to even get near you in a close game situation. In a Basketball game, the might have to go 20 feet or less you say their piece about your calls.

I know an official that made the right call on a three point shoot attempt that was a two point shot (last second shot foot was on the line) and he could not get to the locker room because angry fans were in his way. Police and other security had to step in and free him from the situation. So you sticking around does nothing but cause problems. People are rushing the court and coming from all sides, you do not want to get caught up in any of that. It is that simple.

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Old Wed Oct 31, 2001, 08:25am
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another angle

Another reason that we depart the court so quickly is because of a basic philosophy in officiating. We are there to manage the game and its participants. When the game is finished, we need to disappear. We have no reason to be there.

As far as getting things taken care of before the game ends, that is a result of good communication between the table and the officiating crew. This is a positive, not a negative.

You posed a good question. From the answers you get here and some on-court experience, I'm sure you'll get the point about leaving the playing confines as soon as possible. Good luck.

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Old Wed Oct 31, 2001, 09:42am
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Drinkeii:

The posts you see here involving very weird endings which have been discovered after the officials are off of the playing court are very rare and almost always the result of any of the following:

1) Inadequate pregame meeting among officials, scorer, and timer.

2) Inadequate game management by the officials.

3) Inexperienced game officials.

4) Inexperienced table officials.

As was started in an earlier post, once the game is over, the officials' job, in general, is done; this is true no matter what the sport.

One official stated that under FIBA rules the officials have to check and sign the book after the game, this is true; this use to be the case in women's college basketball before the NCAA added a Women's Committee. Before the NCAA, NAGWS wrote the rules for women's basketball and the rules were patterned after FIBA.

I officiate H.S. soccer (and not any games under USSF/FIFA) and the problem that I see with soccer officials that also officiate USSF is that these officials want to stick around and watch what happens between the teams after the final whistle. I have had to drag partners off of the field because they have wanted to supervise the post game handshake in case there was a fight or someother unsportsmanlike conduct between the teams. GET THE HECK OUT OF THE THERE. If the teams want to have a gang war after the game, that is game management's problem not the game officials' problem.
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Old Wed Oct 31, 2001, 12:11pm
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All I can add to what has already been said is hang around a while. You will get into one of those games where you are the worst official that ever lived and everyone wants your head. Two or three of those games and you will thank anyone who wears a blue shirt and a badge for a living to help you find a locker room and quick. It seems like the lower the level of game the more likely it is to happen.
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Old Wed Oct 31, 2001, 12:18pm
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Talking Murphy's Law

To finish Tim's comment...

And the less likely game management is going to stup up and assist you.
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Old Wed Oct 31, 2001, 05:07pm
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I disagree

I must admit that I disagree with many of the comments above.

I am a FIBA referee, and therefore have to remain on the court to check and sign the scoresheet after the game. As I understand it, under NCAA (and HS) rules, you check the scoresheet during deadball or timeouts in the dying moments of the game. However, this really doesn't guarentee that a mistake won't be made in the final seconds of the game.

As far as my physical safety goes, I expect that the people that are running the stadium will protect me - whether that means having security on hand, or the police or whatever.

In over 15 years of refereeing basketball, I have only "fled" from a stadium once. It was a particularly close game and supporters from both teams were getting very vocal. My partner and I checked the scoresheet at 3/4 time and decided that we would leave the stadium at the final whistle. However, we did advise the tournament management, and we were required to return after things had cooled down and verify the scoresheet.

As far as I am concerned, I am in control of the game until it is over. The game is over when one team has scored more points than another at the end of the game. The scoresheet records who has scored points, and it is up to me (and my partners) to ensure that there are no errors on the scoresheet. This cannot be done until the end of playing time, so the refeees HAVE to hang around to check the scoresheet.

On a lighter note - I suppose I am blessed by not living in a society that has a huge number of people running around with guns - maybe if I did my perspective would be different?
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Old Wed Oct 31, 2001, 07:14pm
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Re: I disagree

Quote:
Originally posted by Oz Referee
I must admit that I disagree with many of the comments above.

I am a FIBA referee, and therefore have to remain on the court to check and sign the scoresheet after the game. As I understand it, under NCAA (and HS) rules, you check the scoresheet during deadball or timeouts in the dying moments of the game. However, this really doesn't guarentee that a mistake won't be made in the final seconds of the game.

As far as my physical safety goes, I expect that the people that are running the stadium will protect me - whether that means having security on hand, or the police or whatever.

In over 15 years of refereeing basketball, I have only "fled" from a stadium once. It was a particularly close game and supporters from both teams were getting very vocal. My partner and I checked the scoresheet at 3/4 time and decided that we would leave the stadium at the final whistle. However, we did advise the tournament management, and we were required to return after things had cooled down and verify the scoresheet.

As far as I am concerned, I am in control of the game until it is over. The game is over when one team has scored more points than another at the end of the game. The scoresheet records who has scored points, and it is up to me (and my partners) to ensure that there are no errors on the scoresheet. This cannot be done until the end of playing time, so the refeees HAVE to hang around to check the scoresheet.

On a lighter note - I suppose I am blessed by not living in a society that has a huge number of people running around with guns - maybe if I did my perspective would be different?
Guns or no guns is not an issue. Most of us on this board are High School Officials. We do not have the previledge of getting consistent security or game management to protect us. You do not need to hang around, mainly because you do not want to encourage confrontations with fans or coaches or even players. We need to the the heck out of dodge and go to the locker room.

Now colleges might have much better security or money to ensure that security of the officials. Colleges usually have bigger arenas and need more security just to handle the crowds and situations that could happen during a sporting event of any kind. High Schools do not always have the same opportunity or situation.

If you do what you are suppose to do, you are not going to need to check anything. The score is on the board. As an official you should be aware what the score is especially in the final minutes of any game. If you need to check the book after that, you were not doing your job the rest of the game. That simple.

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Old Thu Nov 01, 2001, 02:09pm
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Drinkeii-

Not from personal experience, but I have seen water bottles and other debris (from the fans) thrown at officials after the game on their way to the locker room. This not only gets the school in trouble but also is against the law here. By exiting the floor quickly you donÂ’t give that hot coach or player a chance to yell some vulgar comment or worse come after you. The same applies to the fans too. YouÂ’re saving yourself as well as everyone else.

Basketball games, especially tournaments, can really get really wild. Everyone is pumped up and in complete pandemonium. If you get outta there quickly you wonÂ’t have to penalize either team for unsporting conduct. YouÂ’re not there to make friends after the game, your job is done so why stick around?


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Old Thu Nov 01, 2001, 03:02pm
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Get Outta There

Several years ago I was officiating a JV boys game and my assigner (40+ years of experience) was observing. The game ended with a 20-point margin and I quickly walked off the floor toward the locker room. As I exited the floor itself I turned around to wait for my partner, who was nowhere to be found. Turns out that he chased down the game ball, went over to shake hands with the scorers, and took at least two minutes to get off the floor. I never did see him until the locker room.

Our assignor/observer was waiting for him in the locker room...pissed. When my partner finally appeared, the assigner gave him a thorough tongue-lashing... "If you're confident of the final score, get the h*** outta there when the horn goes off. One of these days you're gonna have some irate fan chasing your a** all over the court... and then what are you gonna do?" And so forth for a good two-three minutes.

I haven't seen this partner since, but I'll bet that he's now the first one in the locker room after his games.

(never ever forget 9/11/01)
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Old Thu Nov 01, 2001, 04:01pm
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Re: I disagree

Quote:
Originally posted by Oz Referee
On a lighter note - I suppose I am blessed by not living in a society that has a huge number of people running around with guns - maybe if I did my perspective would be different?
As long as I have mine -- I don't care what the other guy has!
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Old Thu Nov 01, 2001, 04:03pm
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Maybe I am just missing some point, but I don't understand why the officials woulnd't stay around long enough to make sure everything is ok after the game. I have made some major blown calls, but never felt any kind of fear from officials, the fans, or any of the players, even if there were problems from the game.

OK, I'm just going to ignore relating this to swimming because they are not even close!

I would submit to you that if you were officiating soccer overseas (read: Europe, South America, etc. where they are NUTS about soccer) you would be running off the field!

I echo the sentiments of the other folks that replied -- you are closer to the fans, etc. and there is more potential for problems. Unless the score is within 2-3 points, there is no reason to stick around or check anything -- i.e. if it is a 10-20 point game or more there will be not disputes over the winner, so get the heck outta dodge.
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Old Thu Nov 01, 2001, 04:13pm
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Smile Wow!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by Brad


OK, I'm just going to ignore relating this to swimming because they are not even close!
Tell us how your really feel Brad?
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