Block/charge

[phansen]

Defender is set and stationary when the offensive player dribbling the ball runs into the defender. Offensive player bounces off the defender and goes to the ground, while the defender is still standing in the same position. I call a charge. Coach gets upset and asks how his player can be on the ground and still get a charge while the defender is still standing. I agree it was unusual, but didn't have an answer to the question and still believe I made the correct call. Anybody have a similar situation and how have you handled it?

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by phansen

Defender is set and stationary when the offensive player dribbling the ball runs into the defender. Offensive player bounces off the defender and goes to the ground, while the defender is still standing in the same position. I call a charge. Coach gets upset and asks how his player can be on the ground and still get a charge while the defender is still standing. I agree it was unusual, but didn't have an answer to the question and still believe I made the correct call. Anybody have a similar situation and how have you handled it?

For me, it depends on a lot of factors. The book says one of the items in determining a foul is if the receiver of the action os deterred from performing normal defensive or offensive activities. This defender clearly was not! However, if the contact was severe enough to cause the dribbler to fall to the ground it probably was a foul, regardless of anything else. If defense scooped up the ball that got shaken loose by the dribblers antics, let the call go. If the dribbler keeps the ball and falls with it, you might get away with a travel. There's a wide variety of possibilities here. But I personally don't have a problem with a charge here.

[Ref Daddy]

Sell the call. Stick to your guns. Be consistent.

A charge is NOT determined by what happens AFTER the foul occurs, right?

Think Legal Guarding Position. Who had it, who violated it.

Is it possible your offensive player "flopped"?

I would love to see the tape however, does sound interesting and to me not something a coach could avoid commenting on.

[Adam]

Either a player control or a no-call. The way I read it, it sounds like a good chance for a no call.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by phansen

Defender is set and stationary when the offensive player dribbling the ball runs into the defender. Offensive player bounces off the defender and goes to the ground, while the defender is still standing in the same position. I call a charge. Coach gets upset and asks how his player can be on the ground and still get a charge while the defender is still standing. I agree it was unusual, but didn't have an answer to the question and still believe I made the correct call. Anybody have a similar situation and how have you handled it?

I agree with the coach. The contact didn't prevent normal defensive maneuvers by the defender, so it was just incidental contact.

[Junker]

Without seeing it, I might have passed. Nobody gained an advantage.

[CoachP]

I do not have a problem with charging here. Why penalize the defense because B1 is 6-10 and weighs 260 while A1 is 5-8 and goes 165?
If it's the other way around it'd be called.....As the defenses coach, I'd say chalk up the foul and get me to the bonus quicker!

4-7-2
Charging is illegal personal contact caused by pushing or moving into an opponent's torso.

Doesn't say the opponent has to be displaced.

OP didn't mention where the ball went, but...if A1 falls to the ground while holding the ball, a travel could have been called if the charging was passed on, correct?

[Raymond]

As described I'm thinking a "no call" would suffice. If A1 fell to the ground with the ball it's a travel, if A1 lost the ball, B1 probably has a very good chance of recovering the ball.

[rainmaker]

I agree that a no-call could be good here, but I don't have a problem with calling the charge especially if the whistle cracked as the contact was made. And depending on the level. If you're a JV ref, working on getting the call right, and you were seeing the defender in position, the the dribbler deliberately running through, it was a great call. Your next development step will be to start working on holding the whistle, and allowing the play to develop, thus seeing the opportunity for a good no-call. Or possibly a travel, if the dribbler went down to the floor with theb all.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

...If you're a JV ref, working on getting the call right, and you were seeing the defender in position, the the dribbler deliberately running through, it was a great call. Your next development step will be to start working on holding the whistle, and allowing the play to develop, thus seeing the opportunity for a good no-call. Or possibly a travel, if the dribbler went down to the floor with theb all.

Excellent point Juulie!!! You're kewl

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I agree with the coach. The contact didn't prevent normal defensive maneuvers by the defender, so it was just incidental contact.

Not much different than the offensive player stepping on a defender's foot and going down really. If the foot isn't stuck out, fuggedaboutit.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I agree with the coach. The contact didn't prevent normal defensive maneuvers by the defender, so it was just incidental contact.

Furthermore, not only is it not a foul, but if the dribbler held onto the ball while falling to the court, the dribbler has committed a traveling violation.

MTD, Sr.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Furthermore, not only is it not a foul, but if the dribbler held onto the ball while falling to the court, the dribbler has committed a traveling violation.

MTD, Sr.

Originally Posted by rainmaker

If the dribbler keeps the ball and falls with it, you might get away with a travel.

I beat you to that one by about 13 hours, Mark!

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

I beat you to that one by about 13 hours, Mark!

Juulie:

I am sorry, I didn't see your post, I was just skimming through them.

MTD, Sr.

[IUgrad92]

Mark,

So when do you apply rule Rule 4-45-5? Only when the defender hits the ground or gets hurt from the contact by the offensive player?