Open for comment

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Ref Daddy

Does squaring up mean the same as:

ART. 2 . . . To obtain an initial legal guarding position:

a. The guard must have both feet touching the playing court.
b. The front of the guard's torso must be facing the opponent.

No, I think that the original poster meant after LGP was established.

I think.

Maybe.

If he did, rule 4-23-3 applies.

[81artmonk]

Sorry for the confusion, I forgot that you refs talk Ref speak. LGP was what I meant, and from your answers, I feel let down, since by definition most refs I deal with would call a player for blocking even if LGP was obtained.

Also....the guard doesn't have to be facing the opponent either when the contact occurs. He can turn or duck to absorb the contact. Based on this I see my players called for blocking almost everytime. I was always taught that if you have LGP, as you call it, that contact by the opponent is charging.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by 81artmonk

Sorry for the confusion, I forgot that you refs talk Ref speak. LGP was what I meant, and from your answers, I feel let down, since by definition most refs I deal with would call a player for blocking even if LGP was obtained.

Also....the guard doesn't have to be facing the opponent either when the contact occurs. He can turn or duck to absorb the contact. Based on this I see my players called for blocking almost everytime. I was always taught that if you have LGP, as you call it, that contact by the opponent is charging.

You feel let down because....

I don't get your point here.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by 81artmonk

Sorry for the confusion, I forgot that you refs talk Ref speak. LGP was what I meant, and from your answers, I feel let down, since by definition most refs I deal with would call a player for blocking even if LGP was obtained.

Also....the guard doesn't have to be facing the opponent either when the contact occurs. He can turn or duck to absorb the contact. Based on this I see my players called for blocking almost everytime.

Then I would suggest you teach (coach) your players to stop turning and ducking.

I was always taught that if you have LGP, as you call it, that contact by the opponent is charging.

There's quite a bit a player can do to turn a charge into a block.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Then I would suggest you teach (coach) your players to stop turning and ducking.

There's quite a bit a player can do to turn a charge into a block.

Sadly, this is true do to officials who do not correctly call the charge/block. We as officials are much too quick to call a foul on the defense in these situations even when the defender has LGP and is retreating.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Sadly, this is true do to officials who do not correctly call the charge/block. We as officials are much too quick to call a foul on the defense in these situations even when the defender has LGP and is retreating.

I agree.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Sadly, this is true do to officials who do not correctly call the charge/block. We as officials are much too quick to call a foul on the defense in these situations even when the defender has LGP and is retreating.

No, this is due to how players are coached.

I would not agree that "we" as officials are too quick or too slow to do anything.

I would only say that there's a lot a player can do to turn a charge into a block. Of course there's also a lot a player can do to maintain LGP and get the charge. How it turns out depends to a large degree on the coaching.

This coach claims he rarely gets charge calls. As I said if I were him I would take a long look at what I'm teaching.

[deecee]

the only time a charge turns to a block IMO -- is when the defensive players starts to fall way before the contact -- that I deem a block -- and I know by definition a flop is a T in this case but thats a bit harsh and the contact is always the same as a normal block charge call.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by deecee

the only time a charge turns to a block IMO -- is when the defensive players starts to fall way before the contact -- that I deem a block -- and I know by definition a flop is a T in this case but thats a bit harsh and the contact is always the same as a normal block charge call.

Falling away can only lessen the contact, not increase it. If the player had stood his ground, would it be a block? No, then don't call a block if they step/fall away from the contact.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by deecee

the only time a charge turns to a block IMO -- is when the defensive players starts to fall way before the contact -- that I deem a block -- and I know by definition a flop is a T in this case but thats a bit harsh and the contact is always the same as a normal block charge call.

If a player starts falling backward before the call, I will often call it a block, and then say to the play, "if you want the charge, then you need to stand there and take it."

[81artmonk]

I would agree, and I always coach to plant and stand and take the hit, but unfortunetly most refs I experience won't make the call unless it is an iron clad obvious charge. Like the player has established LGP 3 steps ahead of the other player and he gets run over. That seems to be the only instance I have come across in my experience where a ref calls charging.
The most uncalled violation in my experience is Player A is defending the ball. Player B cuts around Player A, Another Player A2 anticipates this and assumes a LGP on the other side of his partner. Player B comes around the blind side of Player A and runs into Player A2. I see this called blocking all the time. When by definition he had established LGP more than 1 step from a player who was obstructed.