Hard Foul

[dknick78]

A1 driving to the basket B1 is trailing and comes down from behind with a hard swipe and knocks ball out of bounds. This more than just going after the ball. The two kids enchange words and I quickly break it up and separate them. I walked B1 away from the court towards the bench telling him to settle down or he will be sitting the rest of the game. I call a shooting foul, two shots. Obvious coach of B1 is not happy that I was taking time to discuss this with B1.

I kick my self now for not calling an intentional or a fragrant foul. What do you think?

[Scrapper1]

I would've (and have in the past) gone to my partner and asked him/her point-blank, "Do you have an intentional?"

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I would've (and have in the past) gone to my partner and asked him/her point-blank, "Do you have an intentional?"

You mean as the calling official?

Or do you mean as the non-calling official?

[dknick78]

Calling official...

[Hartsy]

Originally Posted by dknick78

A1 driving to the basket B1 is trailing and comes down from behind with a hard swipe and knocks ball out of bounds. This more than just going after the ball. The two kids enchange words and I quickly break it up and separate them. I walked B1 away from the court towards the bench telling him to settle down or he will be sitting the rest of the game. I call a shooting foul, two shots. Obvious coach of B1 is not happy that I was taking time to discuss this with B1.

I kick my self now for not calling an intentional or a fragrant foul. What do you think?

You didn't say that the defender even touched the shooter. No contact, no foul. Maybe ring up B1 for taunting after the play, if he got in the face of A1 after the blocked shot.

If there was contact, you could get to an intentional foul here.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by dknick78

Calling official...

My question was for scrappy but I have a question about your play. You mean coach B was upset that you spoke with his player?

If so coach B is a jerk. Don't let the coaches tell you who you can and cannot talk with, especially in this sitch.

[Junker]

I'd say it's a possible intentional. Without being there and seeing the contact it is extremely difficult to judge. Nice job of separating the players. On hard fouls like that you pretty much have a no win situation. One coach is going to want the intentional, the other will go nuts if you call it intentional. Unlike a previous post though, unless it's a double whistle, do not go ask your partner what they had. If you made the call, it must have been in your area and you had the best look at it. Going to your partner after you called a foul will make you appear unsure of yourself and lead to more problems later in the game. Coaches will want to know how you can call a foul and then go ask your partner what YOU should have called.

[dknick78]

There was contact... I know if I am still wondering if it should have been an intentional foul a day later... it should have been and intentional foul or a flagrant.

I was just going by the player going for the ball theory. And he did.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by dknick78

A1 driving to the basket B1 is trailing and comes down from behind with a hard swipe and knocks ball out of bounds. This more than just going after the ball. The two kids enchange words and I quickly break it up and separate them. I walked B1 away from the court towards the bench telling him to settle down or he will be sitting the rest of the game. I call a shooting foul, two shots. Obvious coach of B1 is not happy that I was taking time to discuss this with B1.

I kick my self now for not calling an intentional or a fragrant foul. What do you think?

I didn't see the play...

but, if there is hard contact from behind...on a break-away layup...that's a pretty easy intentional foul, IMO.

What you may have missed...was the double technical fouls on the two players exchanging words with each other. If you feel you have to "break up players"...in a NFHS game...that's good enough for a Dbl. T, IMO.

[Junker]

If you're still thinking about it, maybe you should have called it intentional. Those are always tough plays.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

You mean as the calling official?

Or do you mean as the non-calling official?

I think either is ok. But I was talking about the calling official asking for a second opinion. I had this just this season, actually. I was the Lead in transition. Play came straight down the lane and the shooter hit the ground hard. I thought the defender was playing the ball and did NOT bring the shooter to the ground. But as I'm standing there making sure that nothing extra happens after the play, the shooter's team is very vocal about an intentional. So before I went to the table I asked my partner, "Did you have an intentional on that?" He said, "I didn't have anything". (Which, at the time, I thought he meant that he didn't have a foul!! Later, I asked him and he clarified that it was definitely a foul, but he wouldn't have called it intentional.) So I went with a normal 2-shot foul. When the shooter's coach was still upset about it, I said to him "I checked with my partner and he had the same thing, Coach."

Do you think that's a no-no?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I think either is ok. But I was talking about the calling official asking for a second opinion. I had this just this season, actually. I was the Lead in transition. Play came straight down the lane and the shooter hit the ground hard. I thought the defender was playing the ball and did NOT bring the shooter to the ground. But as I'm standing there making sure that nothing extra happens after the play, the shooter's team is very vocal about an intentional. So before I went to the table I asked my partner, "Did you have an intentional on that?" He said, "I didn't have anything". (Which, at the time, I thought he meant that he didn't have a foul!! Later, I asked him and he clarified that it was definitely a foul, but he wouldn't have called it intentional.) So I went with a normal 2-shot foul. When the shooter's coach was still upset about it, I said to him "I checked with my partner and he had the same thing, Coach."

Do you think that's a no-no?

Yeah, I don't like that.

I would prefer in your play for the non-calling official to come in with arms crossed - even if he doesn't have a whistle - if he thinks it's worth it. I have no problem going for help, but this is one case where I wouldn't, looks too indecisive. But that's just me.

[DonInKansas]

Originally Posted by dknick78

I kick my self now for not calling an intentional or a fragrant foul. What do you think?

Is there some sort of rule against smelling bad in your league?.....

If in your opinion he's going for the ball, no intentional. The coach doesn't like it, oh well. Every call you make only makes one team happy......

[deecee]

damnit Don you beat me to it.

[Red_Killian]

Originally Posted by DonInKansas

Is there some sort of rule against smelling bad in your league?.....

If in your opinion he's going for the ball, no intentional. The coach doesn't like it, oh well. Every call you make only makes one team happy......

Going for the ball does not give a player the right to cause excessive contact. You can be playing the ball but cause excessive contact and be called for an intentional foul....at least in my games