Illegal Screens

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

The way I envision it as long as they don't overtly extend their elbows out beyond their shoulders or use their elbows to chuck the other player this stance is perfectly legal.

They are extending them infront of their body, not out to the sides...knees bent leaning back arms out, but not beyond their toes. Think the I Dream of Genie pose.

I read that as arms extended nearly a foot in front of their body.

[riden]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

They are extending them infront of their body, not out to the sides...knees bent leaning back arms out, but not beyond their toes. Think the I Dream of Genie pose.

I read that as arms extended nearly a foot in front of their body.

But because their knees are bent (semi-squat), the arms are over their toes.

The cylinder should go from toes to your butt in that position, correct? And the arms, while in front of the body, are still over the toes.

This is really the basis of the disagreement

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by riden

But because their knees are bent (semi-squat), the arms are over their toes.

The cylinder should go from toes to your butt in that position, correct? And the arms, while in front of the body, are still over the toes.

This is really the basis of the disagreement

The first contact with the defender is with extended arms, I could further argue that this doesn't meet the natural position part of the rules either.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by riden

But because their knees are bent (semi-squat), the arms are over their toes.

The cylinder should go from toes to your butt in that position, correct? And the arms, while in front of the body, are still over the toes.

This is really the basis of the disagreement

That works as a guideline, assuming they are in a natural position. I think your screeners are legal.

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by riden

But because their knees are bent (semi-squat), the arms are over their toes.

The cylinder should go from toes to your butt in that position, correct? And the arms, while in front of the body, are still over the toes.

This is really the basis of the disagreement

I have seen this used. As long as the arms give when contact occurrs I would allow it as long as the arms where flexed very little. I would have to watch specifically for it to be sure, but I suspect the arms flex out some as part of absorbing the contact when the arms are initially kept against the body. However I have noticed a subsequent action that I wouldn't allow. When contact does occurr, hands are relleased, with the elbows staying extended. That creates a bit of a "|V|" shape where the defender is between the elbows. The defender is then placed at an illegal disadvantage IMO when that happens.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by SamIAm

As long as the arms give when contact occurrs I would allow it as long as the arms where flexed very little. I would have to watch specifically for it to be sure, but I suspect the arms flex out some as part of absorbing the contact when the arms are initially kept against the body.

Sam, what the arms do after the contact doesn't have anything to do with whether the screen is legal or not. The position of the arms and where the contact occurs will determine whether the screen is legal or not.

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Sam, what the arms do after the contact doesn't have anything to do with whether the screen is legal or not. The position of the arms and where the contact occurs will determine whether the screen is legal or not.

Agree. I am pointing out a sitch I have seen that leads to a hold as part of the screener's positioning. The hold occurrs immediatley following the screen if it happens as I described, depending on age, ability, and severity.

That sounds pretty good. I think I will starting putting that on all my posts.
(depending on age, ability, and severity)

[swkansasref33]

haha when I played basketball, I was taught to screen with my hands covering my cajones... because #1 i was a tall kid, and #2, i have seen too many players take cheap shots at screeners, and also accidental and not been called for it. My coach said "get a wide base, and cover your nuts"

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

They are extending them infront of their body, not out to the sides...knees bent leaning back arms out, but not beyond their toes. Think the I Dream of Genie pose.

I read that as arms extended nearly a foot in front of their body.

Maybe you see them extending their upper arms & elbows out in an exaggerated stance. If that's what it is then I agree it could be illegal. What I envision is they are in a natural stance - their arms do not have to be held as flat as possible against their chests to be legal.

As long as they don't chuck the player coming at them or the player running by them they are fine.