Illegal screens

[johnsatchmo]

I do the scoreboard for a local rec league. We have certified officials and every so often some team will be yelling about illegal screens and moving picks but the refs rarely acknowledge them. I was just wondering was is the ruling about these? Just so I can be in the know next time.

[JRutledge]

What do you want to know? I am not sure I understand the question.

Also understand that teams cry for a lot of things that do not go along with the rules. If the officials did not call anything, they probably did not feel there was any reason to.

Peace

[mick]

Originally posted by johnsatchmo
I do the scoreboard for a local rec league. We have certified officials and every so often some team will be yelling about illegal screens and moving picks but the refs rarely acknowledge them. I was just wondering was is the ruling about these? Just so I can be in the know next time.

johnsatchmo,
Welcome to the forum.

RE: Illegal screens and moving picks - The number one thing you must know is that for a foul to be called contact is required.

mick

Note - It's also okay to be here if your are a coach, player, or fan.

[refnrev]

johnsatchmo,
The thing to keep in mind about illegal screens and moving picks is that 99% of the people yelling for them probably don't have the foggiest idea what they are talking about. You'll find the same thing with 3 seconds and all kinds of other things. I'd suggest that in an upcoming game you find one of the officials that you feel comfortable with and ask them to explain it. It would be much easier than describing it on this forum because he/she could actually walk you through it on the court. Keep asking questions. Knowledgeable fans are great to have in the stands and at the table!

[fonzzy07]

UGG I hate it when fans scream moving screen. Really their is not such thing as one. As mentioned before contact must be made, and it must be some other kind of foul. Moving screens are not a foul or a violation.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by fonzzy07
UGG I hate it when fans scream moving screen. Really their is not such thing as one. As mentioned before contact must be made, and it must be some other kind of foul. Moving screens are not a foul or a violation.

Really eh?

You may want to pass that along to the people who write the NFHS rules book. Apparently they haven't learned that yet.

From both the 2001-02 and 2002-03 Rule Books:
POE 4C SCREENS:
Moving Screens:
1) The screener must be stationary upon contact.
2) It is not a moving screen unless there is contact.

There are moving screens. Whether they may be illegal or not is determined by other rules dependant upon the circumstances involved.




[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Jan 17th, 2006 at 09:07 PM]

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Really eh?

You may want to pass that along to the people who write the NFHS rules book. Apparently they haven't learned that yet.

From both the 2001-02 and 2002-03 Rule Books:
POE 4C SCREENS:
Moving Screens:
1) The screener must be stationary upon contact.
2) It is not a moving screen unless there is contact.

There are moving screens. Whether they may be illegal or not is determined by other rules dependant upon the circumstances involved.




[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Jan 17th, 2006 at 09:07 PM]

[fonzzy07]

My bad thanks for clarifying

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by fonzzy07
My bad thanks for clarifying

Nope, you're not bad. You're learning.

The best book description and explanation on what to look for in screens is in rule 10-6-3. I was hoping that some nice guy would come along and paste that into this thread- for johnsatchmo and others. It's kinda long just to type out.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by fonzzy07
My bad thanks for clarifying

There still is no such thing regardless of what JR says. The NF used that term one time in a POE. The NF have not used the term since (I wonder why). So either way you are right, there is no such thing. That terminology is not used in the actual rulebook and you cannot find any other mention of it. Even in that POE, they made it clear there had to be contact and parts of the incidental contact rules still apply (Rule 4-27). So yes the NF might have used that terminology, but there are not terms like that used in the rulebook. The NCAA rules are written almost the same and they make no mention of such a thing called "moving screen." You can be called for a foul and be completely set if you set a screen under the right circumstances.

Peace

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Nope, you're not bad. You're learning.

The best book description and explanation on what to look for in screens is in rule 10-6-3. I was hoping that some nice guy would come along and paste that into this thread- for johnsatchmo and others. It's kinda long just to type out.

ART. 3 . . . A player who screens shall not:

a. When he/she is outside the visual field of a stationary opponent, take a position closer than a normal step from the opponent.
b. When he/she assumes a position at the side or in front of a stationary opponent, make contact with that opponent. It the screen is set within the visual field of a stationary opponent, the screener may be as close to the opponent as the screener desires, short of contact.
c. Take a position so close to a moving opponent that this opponent cannot avoid contact by stopping or changing direction. The speed of the player to be screened will determine where the screener may take his/her stationary position. This position will vary and may be one to two normal steps or strides from the opponent.

d. After assuming his/her legal screening position, move to maintain it, unless he/she moves in the same direction and path of the opponent. When both opponents are moving in exactly the same path and same direction, the player behind is responsible if contact is made because the player in front slows up or stops and the player behind overruns his/her opponent.

If the screener violates any of these provisions and contact results, he/she has committed a personal foul.

A player who is screened within his/her visual field is expected to avoid contact by going around the screener. In cases of screens outside the visual field, the opponent may make inadvertent contact with the screener and if the opponent is running rapidly, the contact may be severe. Such a case is to be ruled as incidental contact provided the opponent stops or attempts to stop on contact and moves around the screen, and provided the screener is not displaced if he/she has the ball. A player may not use the arms, hands, hips or shoulders to force his/her way through a screen or to hold the screener and then push the screener aside in order to maintain a guarding position on an opponent.

NOTE: When a guard moves into the path of a dribbler and contact occurs, either player may be responsible for the contact, but the greater responsibility is that of the dribbler if the guard conforms to the following principles, which officials use in reaching a decision. The guard is assumed to have obtained a guarding position if he/she is in the dribbler's path facing him/her. If he/she jumps into position, both feet must return to the floor after the jump before he/she has obtained a guarding position. No specific stance or distance is required. It is assumed the guard may shift to maintain his/her position in the path of the dribbler, provided he/she does not charge into the dribbler nor otherwise cause contact, as outlined in

[Jurassic Referee]

Thanks, BITS.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Thanks, BITS.

(Madeleine Kahn accent here): He's such a nice guy!

[JRutledge]

Funny, I do not see the term "moving screen" in any of those words which is directly in the rulebook.

I guess when we all talk to our evaluators and assignors we can say some guy named "Jurassic Referee" told us to do it that way and they will not give us a pass. I know the people I work for care a lot about what people on the internet say.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by JRutledge
Funny, I do not see the term "moving screen" in any of those words which is directly in the rulebook.

I guess when we all talk to our evaluators and assignors we can say some guy named "Jurassic Referee" told us to do it that way and they will not give us a pass. I know the people I work for care a lot about what people on the internet say.

Peace

You don't see simultaneous lane-line free throw violations in the rule book either, do you? Or maybe a dribbler losing possession of the ball in the front court, falling into the backcourt and then coming back into the front court to legally touch the ball?

It seems that there's a whole buncha things that you can't see in the rule book, isn't there? Doesn't mean that they aren't in the rule book though- just that you can't see them.

So far, you're 0 for 3 in 3 different forums in the last day. You'll never admit to it though.

Feel free to respond. I wont; I don't know why I bothered in the first place anyway, but I'm done trying to talk sensibly with you- again. It never works and it's just a waste of time.