2-person Long-Switching

[HawkeyeCubP]

Am I the only person who doesn't do this? The association I first learned in taught NO long-switching in 2-person, which, at the time, was an advanced carry-over from 3-person mechanics, I suppose. (We also taught calling official stayed as the outside official, if they called from there - I'm still having trouble with this from time to time.)

Does everyone out there run the full length of the court after you call a bonus foul in the backcourt to report and then become new lead, administering the subsequent free-throws?

Am I the only one who thinks this is ludicrous? I actually thought I had some NFHS material on this, but I thoroughly went through all of my saved Fed yearly PPT updates (only back through 03-04), and I have nothing of the sort.

[26 Year Gap]

Since two person mechanics call for switching on all fouls, I don't find this at all ludicrous. In AAU, when doing 3 or 4 games, I stay trail if I make the call, to conserve energy. But not during the season.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

Since two person mechanics call for switching on all fouls, I don't find this at all ludicrous. In AAU, when doing 3 or 4 games, I stay trail if I make the call, to conserve energy. But not during the season.

You don't find anything ludicrous if it's what the book says?

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

Since two person mechanics call for switching on all fouls, I don't find this at all ludicrous. In AAU, when doing 3 or 4 games, I stay trail if I make the call, to conserve energy. But not during the season.

You're contradicting yourself, slightly, without coming out and saying it.

And you're mis-answering my question. My question wasn't "Why should I do this in Fed-sanctioned games or in leagues/associations where strict Fed mechanics are to be used regarding switches?"

You're basically saying that you prefer it the other way, when conservation of energy is a factor.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

You're contradicting yourself, slightly, without coming out and saying it.

And you're mis-answering my question. My question wasn't "Why should I do this in Fed-sanctioned games or in leagues/associations where strict Fed mechanics are to be used regarding switches?"

You're basically saying that you prefer it the other way, when conservation of energy is a factor.

Regular Season has ratings. AAU does not. Our association has us switch on all fouls. AAU is not governed by our association.

So....no contradiction at all. Plus, I don't do 3 or 4 games as a session during the regular season.

[Nevadaref]

You may not like it, but switching on ALL fouls is the correct NFHS mechanic for 2-person.

What you did previously with your first association was an alteration of the actual correct procedure.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You may not like it, but switching on ALL fouls is the correct NFHS mechanic for 2-person.

What you did previously with your first association was an alteration of the actual correct procedure.

Why won't someone answer his actual question?

Yes, it's completely ludicrous. It's as bad as someone who doesn't bump and run and watches his partner run the length of the court on a sideline throw-in.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Why won't someone answer his actual question?

Yes, it's completely ludicrous. It's as bad as someone who doesn't bump and run and watches his partner run the length of the court on a sideline throw-in.

YEEEEEEEEEES. Want to come work with me in sunny California every Tuesday and Friday, Rich?

I can't stand this.

[Huntin' Ref]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Yes, it's completely ludicrous. It's as bad as someone who doesn't bump and run and watches his partner run the length of the court on a sideline throw-in.

I actually like don't mind a long switch when I'm the lead and I need to run the length of the floor. In our association, we switch partners/crews nightly and if I'm with an older partner I will make the long switch to help him save energy. Now, on a 3-person crew..........I hate long switches!

[Red_Killian]

I've always thought the rationale for switching after every foul was to prevent the calling official from having to make the same call, possibly on the same player, twice in a row or even 3 times if you never switch. By switching you will get the other official in the court area where the foul was just called. If both officials have the same call it's an easier sell than if it's the same official. Makes sense and works in 2-person but does not work in 3-person when you don't always switch. Court coverage areas are smaller in 3-person so maybe the powers to be did not feel it was as much an issue.

We are starting to work more 3-person high school games in my association and have many officials who also work 3-person college games but the idea of no long switch in 2-person has not come up. I have never had a partner try to pregame no long switch in 2-person.

[Larks]

My 2 man games....

No long switches....

Very few short switches -

Get the ball in play.

Oh - we also stay table side on free throws in trail too.

When my assignors found out, they decided to stop giving me two man games!

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You may not like it, but switching on ALL fouls is the correct NFHS mechanic for 2-person.

What you did previously with your first association was an alteration of the actual correct procedure.

I know - totally bizarre. It's one of those things where, despite the fact that I've read the most recent Official's Manual multiple times, and I possess the 04-05 NFHS PowerPoint update (which only discusses long-switching in 3-person), I was certain in my head that it was a Fed mechanic.

I guess I'll start this question in the same thread now, just to see if it's been discussed before (I can't find anything in thread-searching): What is the logic behind this, when it is not the mechanic in 3-person? I'm not just complaining, as it may sound (and I am complaining, don't get me wrong) - I'm truly interested in why this has not been changed, when it is different in 3-person.

[Dan_ref]

Yes it's ludicrous.

When I work HS 2 whistle games I pregame no long switch. If my partner gets nervous and insists on the long switch I'll say sure, fine, but be ready for me to forget every now and then.

It always works out, I've never had to T a coach because he jumped up and screamed "You guys missed that one AND you didn't long switch!!!"

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Yes it's ludicrous.

When I work HS 2 whistle games I pregame no long switch. If my partner gets nervous and insists on the long switch I'll say sure, fine, but be ready for me to forget every now and then.

It always works out, I've never had to T a coach because he jumped up and screamed "You guys missed that one AND you didn't long switch!!!"

See, that's the thing - I just started (this season) running into partners who will basically refuse to do it because "that's not how they want us to do it here" - for fear of being dinged while evaluated (keep in mind, these are people that are not going to be working any post-season games, by a long-shot). Then when it happens, it throws me off. It's my shortcoming, I realize, when I let it stump me, more or less, and I'm overcoming it, but I'm not going to start liking it, nor stop trying to get partners to NOT do it.

Edited to include - I've NEVER been dinged for this in two-person game evaluations, either, anywhere I've worked.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

See, that's the thing - I just started (this season) running into partners who will basically refuse to do it because "that's not how they want us to do it here" - for fear of being dinged while evaluated (keep in mind, these are people that are not going to be working any post-season games, by a long-shot). Then when it happens, it throws me off. It's my shortcoming, I realize, when I let it stump me, more or less, and I'm overcoming it, but I'm not going to start liking it, nor stop trying to get partners to NOT do it.

Edited to include - I've NEVER been dinged for this in two-person game evaluations, either, anywhere I've worked.

I find the first time they jog down court after reporting a foul in the back court and run into me already at new lead they get the message.

"I told you I would forget and I aint running back down there now."

If I have the foul it's no big deal to see them coming to replace me so I just keep going down court.

Yeah, and it's mostly the guys afraid of getting dinged...

Them: "so let's pregame where we stand during time outs"
Me: "Nah, let's pregame basketball instead."