2-person Long-Switching

[HawkeyeCubP]

Am I the only person who doesn't do this? The association I first learned in taught NO long-switching in 2-person, which, at the time, was an advanced carry-over from 3-person mechanics, I suppose. (We also taught calling official stayed as the outside official, if they called from there - I'm still having trouble with this from time to time.)

Does everyone out there run the full length of the court after you call a bonus foul in the backcourt to report and then become new lead, administering the subsequent free-throws?

Am I the only one who thinks this is ludicrous? I actually thought I had some NFHS material on this, but I thoroughly went through all of my saved Fed yearly PPT updates (only back through 03-04), and I have nothing of the sort.

[26 Year Gap]

Since two person mechanics call for switching on all fouls, I don't find this at all ludicrous. In AAU, when doing 3 or 4 games, I stay trail if I make the call, to conserve energy. But not during the season.

[Nevadaref]

You may not like it, but switching on ALL fouls is the correct NFHS mechanic for 2-person.

What you did previously with your first association was an alteration of the actual correct procedure.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You may not like it, but switching on ALL fouls is the correct NFHS mechanic for 2-person.

What you did previously with your first association was an alteration of the actual correct procedure.

Why won't someone answer his actual question?

Yes, it's completely ludicrous. It's as bad as someone who doesn't bump and run and watches his partner run the length of the court on a sideline throw-in.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

Since two person mechanics call for switching on all fouls, I don't find this at all ludicrous. In AAU, when doing 3 or 4 games, I stay trail if I make the call, to conserve energy. But not during the season.

You don't find anything ludicrous if it's what the book says?

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

Since two person mechanics call for switching on all fouls, I don't find this at all ludicrous. In AAU, when doing 3 or 4 games, I stay trail if I make the call, to conserve energy. But not during the season.

You're contradicting yourself, slightly, without coming out and saying it.

And you're mis-answering my question. My question wasn't "Why should I do this in Fed-sanctioned games or in leagues/associations where strict Fed mechanics are to be used regarding switches?"

You're basically saying that you prefer it the other way, when conservation of energy is a factor.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You may not like it, but switching on ALL fouls is the correct NFHS mechanic for 2-person.

What you did previously with your first association was an alteration of the actual correct procedure.

I know - totally bizarre. It's one of those things where, despite the fact that I've read the most recent Official's Manual multiple times, and I possess the 04-05 NFHS PowerPoint update (which only discusses long-switching in 3-person), I was certain in my head that it was a Fed mechanic.

I guess I'll start this question in the same thread now, just to see if it's been discussed before (I can't find anything in thread-searching): What is the logic behind this, when it is not the mechanic in 3-person? I'm not just complaining, as it may sound (and I am complaining, don't get me wrong) - I'm truly interested in why this has not been changed, when it is different in 3-person.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Why won't someone answer his actual question?

Yes, it's completely ludicrous. It's as bad as someone who doesn't bump and run and watches his partner run the length of the court on a sideline throw-in.

YEEEEEEEEEES. Want to come work with me in sunny California every Tuesday and Friday, Rich?

I can't stand this.

[Dan_ref]

Yes it's ludicrous.

When I work HS 2 whistle games I pregame no long switch. If my partner gets nervous and insists on the long switch I'll say sure, fine, but be ready for me to forget every now and then.

It always works out, I've never had to T a coach because he jumped up and screamed "You guys missed that one AND you didn't long switch!!!"

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Yes it's ludicrous.

When I work HS 2 whistle games I pregame no long switch. If my partner gets nervous and insists on the long switch I'll say sure, fine, but be ready for me to forget every now and then.

It always works out, I've never had to T a coach because he jumped up and screamed "You guys missed that one AND you didn't long switch!!!"

See, that's the thing - I just started (this season) running into partners who will basically refuse to do it because "that's not how they want us to do it here" - for fear of being dinged while evaluated (keep in mind, these are people that are not going to be working any post-season games, by a long-shot). Then when it happens, it throws me off. It's my shortcoming, I realize, when I let it stump me, more or less, and I'm overcoming it, but I'm not going to start liking it, nor stop trying to get partners to NOT do it.

Edited to include - I've NEVER been dinged for this in two-person game evaluations, either, anywhere I've worked.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

See, that's the thing - I just started (this season) running into partners who will basically refuse to do it because "that's not how they want us to do it here" - for fear of being dinged while evaluated (keep in mind, these are people that are not going to be working any post-season games, by a long-shot). Then when it happens, it throws me off. It's my shortcoming, I realize, when I let it stump me, more or less, and I'm overcoming it, but I'm not going to start liking it, nor stop trying to get partners to NOT do it.

Edited to include - I've NEVER been dinged for this in two-person game evaluations, either, anywhere I've worked.

I find the first time they jog down court after reporting a foul in the back court and run into me already at new lead they get the message.

"I told you I would forget and I aint running back down there now."

If I have the foul it's no big deal to see them coming to replace me so I just keep going down court.

Yeah, and it's mostly the guys afraid of getting dinged...

Them: "so let's pregame where we stand during time outs"
Me: "Nah, let's pregame basketball instead."

[JRutledge]

We must understand that mechanics are not like rules. The Mechanics books are guides for basic procedures. If your state or area wants to change them, they can do that. For example our state does not want us to bounce the ball from the Lead or New Trail positions to the thrower. In the NF mechanics I believe there is an option. So if your state does not want to switch on all fouls, then that might be something your state would mandate. If you have no specific procedure from the NF, then you can do what you think is best. Not all issues are listed in the NF Official's Manual. I do not even think the "bump and run" is advocated. At least when I started it was not but it was a very common mechanic we used.

BTW Basketball is the only sport we follow the mechanics book in my state pretty much to the letter out of the three sports I work. In Football and Baseball most of what the NF puts in those manuals does not apply to us. And these are two sports we have NF Committee members directly from the IHSA office. So that should tell you how important those books are to the NF.

Peace

[Adam]

In Iowa and here in Colorado, virtually all my experienced partners specifically pregamed not to do long switches. Most of them won't even switch all the time when they call a foul as T in the front court unless we get a couple in a row. Call it, report it, and get the ball in play immediately seems to be the mantra around here.
With the new guys, I'm just happy to have them in the right spot during a live ball.

[Back In The Saddle]

As somebody smarter than me pointed out, the biggest potential problem with the long switch is that while you and your partner are still hanging out at this end of the floor (he reporting, you preparing to inbound), the other eight guys are all heading up the floor with inadequate supervision. And since something physical just happened to necessitate calling the foul, there's always the chance that somebody will retaliate. If they do, where are you? Standing in backcourt, nowhere nearby.

So I pregame to not do the long switch, at least not if play will resume with a throw-in. I also pregame that we don't switch if the trail calls a foul in the frontcourt such that he can turn, report, and inbounds the ball all from right where he's at.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

As somebody smarter than me pointed out, the biggest potential problem with the long switch is that while you and your partner are still hanging out at this end of the floor (he reporting, you preparing to inbound), the other eight guys are all heading up the floor with inadequate supervision. And since something physical just happened to necessitate calling the foul, there's always the chance that somebody will retaliate. If they do, where are you? Standing in backcourt, nowhere nearby.

So I pregame to not do the long switch, at least not if play will resume with a throw-in. I also pregame that we don't switch if the trail calls a foul in the frontcourt such that he can turn, report, and inbounds the ball all from right where he's at.

Now that's just silly. Why would we do that, when we...do that...in.....3-person.....Other than the long switch, the thing I despise the most is calling a foul as tableside trail in the FC, turning and reporting, turning around, and having my partner stand halfway up the paint, holding the ball in a way that implies I need to get over there and take it from him. (Sarcasm on) Yeah, I know - let's hold up the game another 5-7 seconds for....I'm sure some good reason, and look just plain goofy and like we're arbitrarily switching places while NO ONE else on the court is even moving. Yeah. Seems like we should keep that one around for a while, even though we don't do anything resembling it anymore in 3-person. (Sarcasm off)

I was taught these same things when I started. I know an official from Georgia who was taught the same things as the norm, so I know it's not just an Iowa thing.

So does anyone have any Fed insight into why these are still in place? Do we think these (or at least the no long switch) will be implemented into the Fed 2-person mechanics any time soon?

And thank you, all, for making me feel more sane.